Two battle axes comments

[stelio]

Hello my friends! I have two axes in my possession and would like your help and your comments. the former appears to be from the Balkans or from Persia. the second but I can not find the roots. Thank you Stelios

[Stan S.]

Hello Stelios,

Neither one appears to be Persian, although the 2nd one is shaped a bit like tabar... Perhaps Turkish? Balkan or East European is also a good possibility. Is there any chance to get pictures of the whole axe including the shaft? Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Nice axes by the way.

[Atlantia]

Hi Stelio,
the second one looks like it might be Arab, a 'Jerz' axe.
Ask Stu (Khanjar1) or Ibrahiim.

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Stelio,
the second one looks like it might be Arab, a 'Jerz' axe.
Ask Stu (Khanjar1) or Ibrahiim.

I think you are spot on! This also explain the rough appearance of the blade. I would still love to see the shaft and get the overall length of the item.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by stelio

Hello my friends! I have two axes in my possession and would like your help and your comments. the former appears to be from the Balkans or from Persia. the second but I can not find the roots. Thank you Stelios

Salaams stelio, Interesting~ I wonder if the protrusion on the first axe is original or welded on afterwards...? The Omanis have two slightly different axes
1. From the Musandam.
2. From the Wayhaybah or Waheebah sands in North East Oman.

The Musandam axe is called a Jers (or Jirz) quite ornamental often with brass inlay and incised geometrical designs and is carried by Shihuh tribesmen and the other is called a Qaddum and is carried by the Wayhaybah tribesmen on camelback... and is often dead basic looking without incised adornment in plain steel and with a shaft of Ghaf wood.(probably changed on your specimens)

Wayhaybah axes..I think that is what we are loooking at in the case of the second weapon though the first looks like the Indian style and somewhat odd because of the hook protrusion.


For axes see Atlantia thread; Small Axes for ID #13 etc.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Atlantia]

Link to single post mentioned by Ibrahiim:
Jerz Axes

[kronckew]

the 1st one loks like a fokos from the balkans/carpathians. they also come in decorated brass. also known as ciupaga they can have very decorative hafts and engraved heads. defensive walking sticks for those trips to the pub thru the forest at night, for wolves, four legged or two legged. the ciupaga hafts have an alpine spike at the bottom end.

2nd looks like an arabian mussandam axe/walking stick.

more modern repro from hungary: top
one of my ciupaga: top middle, chromed head
my little arabian mussandam jers axe/walking stick: bottom middle
my other brass headed ciupaga,
sheet brass guard over the edge: bottom

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

the 1st one loks like a fokos from the balkans/carpathians. they also come in decorated brass. also known as ciupaga they can have very decorative hafts and engraved heads. defensive walking sticks for those trips to the pub thru the forest at night, for wolves, four legged or two legged. the ciupaga hafts have an alpine spike at the bottom end.

2nd looks like an arabian mussandam axe/walking stick.

more modern repro from hungary: top
one of my ciupaga: top middle, chromed head
my little arabian mussandam jers axe/walking stick: bottom middle
my other brass headed ciupaga,
sheet brass guard over the edge: bottom

Salaams kronckew,

Your axe is indeed from the Musandam however the axe in question is not. It is from the Wahaybah in Oman. Whereas Musandam Jers (or Jirz) are incised and very often inlaid with brass and sometimes silver,(which may have developed because of its Iconic stature; there it is carried as a badge of office as is the Khanjar in other areas of Oman) whilst the Wahaybah(or Wahiibah) axes (qaddum) are not.. In the Wahaybah it is used on camel back... as a camel stick and defensive weapon on a shaft of Ghaf.

I often see Jers axes (I have about 20 in my collection) and the wood is Meez which is very hard..The Jers axes are made in Lima and Khasab. The Wahaybay Qaddum are made in Sinaw and a fine description is outlined in the chapter on Musandam in the Omani Cultural Heritage document by Richardson and Dorr and particularly in pages 78 and 79 and covered fully in respect of the Wayhaybah weapon on page 453.
Photos show;

1.Musandam map and
2.Jers and
3.Qaddum

The bottom qaddum being more or less identical to the axe in question though I have to say I'm unsure as to the other axe in question with a curled sort of handle sprouting from the hammer end... that I think is unrelated ~ possibly Indian?

Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

shukran, mu'alim.

you are of course more knowledgeable than i am & i'm grateful for your sharing of it. tasharafna.

ma`a as-salaamah.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

shukran, mu'alim.

you are of course more knowledgeable than i am & i'm grateful for your sharing of it. tasharafna.

ma`a as-salaamah.

Salaams..Yaa ustaadhi wa ahlen wa sahlan bikum !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[kronckew]

we here are a family of teachers who are also scholars, and scholars who are also teachers. a rather diverse one, but bonded by our seeking for the truth and for beauty, rather than mere genetics.

fi aman allah.

(p.s. - we have now pretty much exhausted my anglicized arabic, i can (just) write my name in arabic, but would not even try to read any arabic text.)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

we here are a family of teachers who are also scholars, and scholars who are also teachers. a rather diverse one, but bonded by our seeking for the truth and for beauty, rather than mere genetics.

fi aman allah.

(p.s. - we have now pretty much exhausted my anglicized arabic, i can (just) write my name in arabic, but would not even try to read any arabic text.)

Salaams~ I find the caligraphy very difficult ... having said that all the punctuation marks in English come from Arabic plus it has the added simplification of not having any capitals. You do well to even attempt it and it is a great honour that you do try...Mabruk !!

[stelio]

Hello my friends. axes are in the family at least 200 years, but after the war had to use them for tools. The woods are certainly changed since the were for agricultural work. and the scripture had plans to work will surely faded. thank you Stelios

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Stelio,
the second one looks like it might be Arab, a 'Jerz' axe.
Ask Stu (Khanjar1) or Ibrahiim.

Hi Stelio,
Somehow missed this. Yes the second one is a JERZ axe, Oman. My email is sabiki@clear.net.nz if you require further information.
Stu

[stelio]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams stelio, Interesting~ I wonder if the protrusion on the first axe is original or welded on afterwards...? The Omanis have two slightly different axes
1. From the Musandam.
2. From the Wayhaybah or Waheebah sands in North East Oman.

The Musandam axe is called a Jers (or Jirz) quite ornamental often with brass inlay and incised geometrical designs and is carried by Shihuh tribesmen and the other is called a Qaddum and is carried by the Wayhaybah tribesmen on camelback... and is often dead basic looking without incised adornment in plain steel and with a shaft of Ghaf wood.(probably changed on your specimens)

Wayhaybah axes..I think that is what we are loooking at in the case of the second weapon though the first looks like the Indian style and somewhat odd because of the hook protrusion.


For axes see Atlantia thread; Small Axes for ID #13 etc.

Regards Ibrahiim.

hello ibrahiim !!! not stuck after, is a hook like those in the Venetian swords to handle them to beat the battle. as a kind of breaking heads. Thank you Stelios

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Stelio,
Somehow missed this. Yes the second one is a JERZ axe, Oman. My email is sabiki@clear.net.nz if you require further information.
Stu

Salaams~
No it isnt. Its a qaddum axe from the Wahiibah in the Omani sharqiyyah ~ see my posts on this thread for detail. Ibrahiim

[eftihis]

Στελιο, I want to send you a private message, but i cant because you have made your account unable to receive messages. Can you contact me please?

[stelio]

eftihi if you want to send me e-mail stelioszaloumis@hotmail.com

[stelio]

[QUOTE=stelio]eftihi if you want to send me e-mail