Robotic Kris

Spunjer · 6th May 2012, 08:14 PM

...if the Iron Man were to carry a kris, i envisioned it would kinda look like this. i mean look at it; it's so - robotic, for better lack of terms. let's start with the handle. the pommel is a solid piece; heavy and appears to have been molded. as far as material: brass perhaps? looking at the nooks and crannies, i see verdigris. but what's throwing me off is how it's uniform throughout and smooth where the hand holding it should be. going to the grip part, it's a single wrapped brass wire the size of sewing thread.
now onto the blade.
starting with the gangya: talismanic inlays in the form of both asterisks and discs made out of brass. the blade is held by two silver asang-asang, and a silver breastplate on both side. now here's were it starts to get weird. the center panel exactly four and a half inches from the bottom of the gangya is actually a separate piece altogether. the outline is marked by the brass asterisks. i'm thinking those two brass buttons is what's holding the rest of the blade and the center panel together. perhaps the silver breastplate as well. (check this thread out: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6947)

Spunjer · 6th May 2012, 08:15 PM

the blade has dual fullers; center one being much wider than the other one. here's weird number two. not all that unusual really, but it's something you don't see everyday. if you look at the overall profile of the blade, it has that yataghan-like curve. i know there was something odd about it at first. once i placed it next to a straight edge, you could really tell.
well, hope y'all like this neat kris....

ThePepperSkull · 6th May 2012, 09:06 PM

Incredible piece! I've seen kris bases welded to the rest of the blade before, but this is the first time I've seen one where the weld lines are covered up by decorative/talismanic inlays. Beautiful!

How do you supposed they made their metal pommels, ron? I remember reading somewhere that some Lumad tribes (I can't recall if it was the T'boli or the Mandaya) used a Lost-wax casting method. Would this be how Moro craftsmen made theirs? Also interesting to note is the size of the kakatua pommel. A lot of the metal ones I see are the bigger, more ornate pieces to regular-sized as opposed to this one which seems a very diminutive, but field-functional kakatua size.

Another thing I wan to point out is how the fullers terminate at the tip. Instead of stopping before the top ends, the fuller continues on into the tip of the blade. I've seen this in many a fullered moro kris. Is this a sign of a blade being shortened, or were these fullers made this way to continue into the tip instead of terminating an inch or two before it?

DaveA · 6th May 2012, 10:49 PM

I love this kris! "Robotic" or not, it certainly exudes strength. Thanks for sharing.

Sajen · 6th May 2012, 11:14 PM

Just come home with my son from cinema, "Marvel's The Avengers"!

You are right, this kris could be from Iron Man!!

Congrats to this unique and beautiful kris!

Regards,

Detlef

Spunjer · 7th May 2012, 12:31 AM

Thanks!
Regarding the pommel, I think your point is valid about the pommel being casted using the lost wax method. What baffles me is the shape of it. There was a lumad kris posted by migueldiaz on my thread, and it seem to be an exact replica of a typical pommel. This one just look a tad futuristic for its time, lol...
I notice the fuller as well, in that it extends all the way to the tip. With everything else pretty much unconventional, I wouldn't be surprise if this was done on purpose...

kino · 7th May 2012, 01:59 AM

Spunjer, nice kris. It must have some heft to it, considering the solid metal pommel. Do you think at it's early development it had a silver panel on both sides of the blade within the brass inlays. Like the photo below.
Just a thought.
Did I mention that, that's a nice kris..........sigh....

Spunjer · 7th May 2012, 04:25 AM

C'mon brah, ya need to post a full body shot of that beaut...
Seems to me they belong in the same category. Notice how the asterisks continue past the gangya line and follow the fretwork. Is the center panel on yours silver? I don't think mine is an earlier version; rather, I think yours is just the blingy type.

kino · 7th May 2012, 06:22 AM

If it were only mine, then I would've posted a full length photo.
Sorry homie.

Spunjer · 7th May 2012, 01:06 PM

ah, sayang, pre..
as far as heft: not much heftier than a kris of the same size... as a matter of fact, it's balanced as heck. it perfectly counteracts the arc of the blade. the blade is beefier than normal tho.
of note as well is a copper wire wedged between the handle and blade (visible on pic 2). can't figure what it is. only thing i can think of is perhaps it was used for a munsala cloth at one time...

A.alnakkas · 7th May 2012, 02:13 PM

Wow what a nice piece, thanks for sharing mate! now ship it to me please. :P

Sajen · 7th May 2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

ah, sayang, pre..

LOL!

Dimasalang · 7th May 2012, 07:52 PM

All I have to add here.... WOW thats an awesome piece Ron!!

mross · 9th May 2012, 04:21 PM

Does that center-panel go all the way through or is it like an inlay?

Maurice · 9th May 2012, 04:28 PM

Congrats with this beauty Ron!

As unique as it is, I specially like this old talismanic blade......

Maurice

Spunjer · 9th May 2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Does that center-panel go all the way through or is it like an inlay?

It appears to go through, mross. IMO it was folded over the blade (think poncho) and peened by those two brass buttons. The silver plate is an enigma though: it's actually raised so I'm not sure if it goes right thru, or if it's two separate pieces somehow glued opposite to each other...
Thanks Maurice. Somehow I'm on this talismanic kick lately, lol...

mross · 9th May 2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

It appears to go through, mross. IMO it was folded over the blade (think poncho) and peened by those two brass buttons. The silver plate is an enigma though: it's actually raised so I'm not sure if it goes right thru, or if it's two separate pieces somehow glued opposite to each other...
Thanks Maurice. Somehow I'm on this talismanic kick lately, lol...

Any chance that silver plate has a section that goes under the ganja? If so it could be like a clamp to help hold the other section in place.

David · 9th May 2012, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Any chance that silver plate has a section that goes under the ganja? If so it could be like a clamp to help hold the other section in place.

I think that if you look closely at the close-up, it clearly does not.

mross · 9th May 2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think that if you look closely at the close-up, it clearly does not.

Well I looked at the close up real closely and could not be certain if it was metal over top or just accumulated dirt and such, which is way I asked. Why does a question to be certain bother you so much?

David · 10th May 2012, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Well I looked at the close up real closely and could not be certain if it was metal over top or just accumulated dirt and such, which is way I asked. Why does a question to be certain bother you so much?

I am not sure in what way, shape or form you felt that your question bothered me....in any way, lest of all "so much".

I responded because after i looked at the close-up (5th photo i think) it appeared obvious to me. If it's not to you that is OK and i don't believe i made any statements to the contrary. Even ended my statement with a shrug. Not sure what you are looking for here.

Rick · 10th May 2012, 02:14 AM

A question for Ron:
Do the fullers both run right off the tip ?
If that is the case then I would wonder if the blade has been shortened or reshaped, or even incorporated from a non-Moro blade .

Spunjer · 10th May 2012, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Any chance that silver plate has a section that goes under the ganja? If so it could be like a clamp to help hold the other section in place.

mross, that's what i thought at first, but upon closer look, it doesn't have a section that goes under. what i'm not sure of, is if it goes thru the center panel itself. around the silver plate itself, it seems to be indented. here's another angle.

Rick · 10th May 2012, 03:45 AM

With all the decorative motifs present on this sword I would have to think that the silver piece in the blade base (sorsoran in Jawa terms) is probably decorative ... unless it possibly covers a replaced/repaired tang, that is .

I'm sure you don't want to etch this sword; but I would bet it would answer a couple of questions anyway .

Spunjer · 10th May 2012, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A question for Ron:
Do the fullers both run right off the tip ?
If that is the case then I would wonder if the blade has been shortened or reshaped, or even incorporated from a non-Moro blade

yes, it does, rick. good point on incorporating a non-moro. the over all shape does throw me off, lol..

Spunjer · 10th May 2012, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

With all the decorative motifs present on this sword I would have to think that the silver piece in the blade base (sorsoran in Jawa terms) is probably decorative ... unless it possibly covers a replaced/repaired tang, that is .

it seems to be the silver plate is the fancy version of what was discussed on this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6947. what i'm wondering is, is it a tang repair, or is it a specific type of kris? kino's example above seems to be a similar type, albeit blinged out..

Rick · 10th May 2012, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

yes, it does, rick. good point on incorporating a non-moro. the over all shape does throw me off, lol..

I just can't figure out what (if it is a foreign blade added here) that sword would have originally been ...

Fun mystery we've got here .

Spunjer · 10th May 2012, 04:25 AM

hehe, love these kinda blades. it bucks the system. here's the close up of the tip. is that wootz? (wishing). btw, i haven't really cleaned the blade yet, just the usual preliminary surface grime removal. will try to etch this when i get some free time...

mross · 10th May 2012, 03:00 PM

The tip does look cut off and reprofiled. Wootz is a possibility as I was thinking I saw evidence of a twist core in some of the photo's! Very intresting blade, should give you a good study. I'm still wondering about that silver piece and the ganja. The other view helped a bit, that view showed more metal then what original looked like accumulated debris. I agree it most likely is hiding something under it. I would not etch the blade near the inlays but why not etch near the tip? Sort of like opening a window in the Nihonto world.

migueldiaz · 14th May 2012, 10:12 AM

very nice indeed, mr. z! thanks for the pics!

delor · 26th May 2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

the center panel exactly four and a half inches from the bottom of the gangya is actually a separate piece altogether. the outline is marked by the brass asterisks.

Hello Spunjer,
I am not sure the center panel is a separate piece... looking at the close-up photos, I can't tell whether the line is a welding line or is an engraved one for brass inlay, just the same as for the stars.
By the way, the silver plate might hide the welding of the tang onto the blade...

6th May 2012, 08:14 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Robotic Kris ...if the Iron Man were to carry a kris, i envisioned it would kinda look like this. i mean look at it; it's so - robotic, for better lack of terms. let's start with the handle. the pommel is a solid piece; heavy and appears to have been molded. as far as material: brass perhaps? looking at the nooks and crannies, i see verdigris. but what's throwing me off is how it's uniform throughout and smooth where the hand holding it should be. going to the grip part, it's a single wrapped brass wire the size of sewing thread. now onto the blade. starting with the gangya: talismanic inlays in the form of both asterisks and discs made out of brass. the blade is held by two silver asang-asang, and a silver breastplate on both side. now here's were it starts to get weird. the center panel exactly four and a half inches from the bottom of the gangya is actually a separate piece altogether. the outline is marked by the brass asterisks. i'm thinking those two brass buttons is what's holding the rest of the blade and the center panel together. perhaps the silver breastplate as well. (check this thread out: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6947) Attached Images

6th May 2012, 08:15 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	the blade has dual fullers; center one being much wider than the other one. here's weird number two. not all that unusual really, but it's something you don't see everyday. if you look at the overall profile of the blade, it has that yataghan-like curve. i know there was something odd about it at first. once i placed it next to a straight edge, you could really tell. well, hope y'all like this neat kris.... Attached Images

6th May 2012, 09:06 PM	#3
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Incredible piece! I've seen kris bases welded to the rest of the blade before, but this is the first time I've seen one where the weld lines are covered up by decorative/talismanic inlays. Beautiful! How do you supposed they made their metal pommels, ron? I remember reading somewhere that some Lumad tribes (I can't recall if it was the T'boli or the Mandaya) used a Lost-wax casting method. Would this be how Moro craftsmen made theirs? Also interesting to note is the size of the kakatua pommel. A lot of the metal ones I see are the bigger, more ornate pieces to regular-sized as opposed to this one which seems a very diminutive, but field-functional kakatua size. Another thing I wan to point out is how the fullers terminate at the tip. Instead of stopping before the top ends, the fuller continues on into the tip of the blade. I've seen this in many a fullered moro kris. Is this a sign of a blade being shortened, or were these fullers made this way to continue into the tip instead of terminating an inch or two before it? Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 6th May 2012 at 09:31 PM.

6th May 2012, 10:49 PM	#4
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Incredible I love this kris! "Robotic" or not, it certainly exudes strength. Thanks for sharing.

7th May 2012, 01:59 AM	#7
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Spunjer, nice kris. It must have some heft to it, considering the solid metal pommel. Do you think at it's early development it had a silver panel on both sides of the blade within the brass inlays. Like the photo below. Just a thought. Did I mention that, that's a nice kris..........sigh.... Attached Images

6th May 2012, 11:14 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Just come home with my son from cinema, "Marvel's The Avengers"! You are right, this kris could be from Iron Man!! Congrats to this unique and beautiful kris! Regards, Detlef

7th May 2012, 12:31 AM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Thanks! Regarding the pommel, I think your point is valid about the pommel being casted using the lost wax method. What baffles me is the shape of it. There was a lumad kris posted by migueldiaz on my thread, and it seem to be an exact replica of a typical pommel. This one just look a tad futuristic for its time, lol... I notice the fuller as well, in that it extends all the way to the tip. With everything else pretty much unconventional, I wouldn't be surprise if this was done on purpose...

7th May 2012, 04:25 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	C'mon brah, ya need to post a full body shot of that beaut... Seems to me they belong in the same category. Notice how the asterisks continue past the gangya line and follow the fretwork. Is the center panel on yours silver? I don't think mine is an earlier version; rather, I think yours is just the blingy type.

7th May 2012, 06:22 AM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	If it were only mine, then I would've posted a full length photo. Sorry homie.

7th May 2012, 01:06 PM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ah, sayang, pre.. as far as heft: not much heftier than a kris of the same size... as a matter of fact, it's balanced as heck. it perfectly counteracts the arc of the blade. the blade is beefier than normal tho. of note as well is a copper wire wedged between the handle and blade (visible on pic 2). can't figure what it is. only thing i can think of is perhaps it was used for a munsala cloth at one time...

7th May 2012, 02:13 PM	#11
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Wow what a nice piece, thanks for sharing mate! now ship it to me please. :P

7th May 2012, 07:52 PM	#13
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	All I have to add here.... WOW thats an awesome piece Ron!!

9th May 2012, 04:21 PM	#14
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Does that center-panel go all the way through or is it like an inlay?

9th May 2012, 04:28 PM	#15
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Congrats with this beauty Ron! As unique as it is, I specially like this old talismanic blade...... Maurice

10th May 2012, 02:14 AM	#21
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A question for Ron: Do the fullers both run right off the tip ? If that is the case then I would wonder if the blade has been shortened or reshaped, or even incorporated from a non-Moro blade .

10th May 2012, 03:45 AM	#23
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	With all the decorative motifs present on this sword I would have to think that the silver piece in the blade base (sorsoran in Jawa terms) is probably decorative ... unless it possibly covers a replaced/repaired tang, that is . I'm sure you don't want to etch this sword; but I would bet it would answer a couple of questions anyway .

10th May 2012, 04:25 AM	#27
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	hehe, love these kinda blades. it bucks the system. here's the close up of the tip. is that wootz? (wishing). btw, i haven't really cleaned the blade yet, just the usual preliminary surface grime removal. will try to etch this when i get some free time... Attached Images

10th May 2012, 03:00 PM	#28
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	The tip does look cut off and reprofiled. Wootz is a possibility as I was thinking I saw evidence of a twist core in some of the photo's! Very intresting blade, should give you a good study. I'm still wondering about that silver piece and the ganja. The other view helped a bit, that view showed more metal then what original looked like accumulated debris. I agree it most likely is hiding something under it. I would not etch the blade near the inlays but why not etch near the tip? Sort of like opening a window in the Nihonto world.

14th May 2012, 10:12 AM	#29
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	very nice indeed, mr. z! thanks for the pics!