Interesting Shibriya for comments

[A.alnakkas]

Soo, this just came in. Its an interesting piece because while its shibriya, the craftmanship appears to be Saudi and its very good work. Am I wrong for assuming it is Saudi? Most of the Jordanian and Palestinian examples I came across had bronze or white metal fittings, this one is silver and the filigree style is almost identical to Saudi khanjar styles.

There are shibriyas made in Saudi, so it seems not too farfetched?

[kahnjar1]

Saw this on epray and decided to pass because to me the scabbard looks to be a composite/blending of two pieces. The hilt and the scabbard down as far as the V shape appears to be a completely different style and quality of decoration to the lower section below the V. The sheen on the silver also appears different, but then I do not have it in hand and have to rely on photos.
An interesting piece none the less.

[ariel]

I doubt it is a true shibriya: their blades have pronounced angular bent. This one is curved, not bent.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Saw this on epray and decided to pass because to me the scabbard looks to be a composite/blending of two pieces. The hilt and the scabbard down as far as the V shape appears to be a completely different style and quality of decoration to the lower section below the V. The sheen on the silver also appears different, but then I do not have it in hand and have to rely on photos.
An interesting piece none the less.

Hey Stu,

The work is all authentic, typical of saudi made shibriyas to be of different patterns around the blade. Same for some Jordanian/Palestinian ones. Its just not the usual style :-)

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by ariel

I doubt it is a true shibriya: their blades have pronounced angular bent. This one is curved, not bent.

Not all shibriyas come with bent blades. There are different makers with different styles and the types are usually called according to the maker's family name. Dont know too much details but what makes a shibriya a shibriya is its size, not the shape of the blade.

Shibriya is a variation of the word Shibr which is a measuring method. Its the length between the spread index finger and the thumb.

Picture included of a Jordanian shibriya with a different type of blade.

[BANTARU]

A fine piece. The Hilt and Upper scabbard is definitely Saudi Style.

Though I prefer horn hilts to metal ones.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Stu,

The work is all authentic, typical of saudi made shibriyas to be of different patterns around the blade. Same for some Jordanian/Palestinian ones. Its just not the usual style :-)

My comments were not based on the patterns, but on the differing QUALITY of the engraving, and the different metal SHEEN of the two sections.
Stu

[Oriental-Arms]

Interesting nice mix. Few comments:

1) I agree with Ariel. This is not a Shibriya. The blade shape and cross section, The handle shape, the style of decoration and the style of connection to the belt are all very different from what I am familiar with the Jordanian / Palestinian Shibriya. A Saudi Shibria?? I am not familiar with this.

2) Blade: The shallow diamond cross section is not common in the Jordanian Palestinian ones and also I think it is not very common in other Saudi / Yemenite daggers / Khanjars . For this shape of cross section I would look more North – East of the Arab peninsula: Iraq, Persia and even further east. It may be worth to check the quality of the steel.

3) As Stu noted, There is a big difference in style and decoration technique in the two parts of the scabbard. The lower part, between the locket and the tip of the scabbard is engraved in a very poor technology, very common to decoration technique and style found in Jordan, Palestine and sometimes Syria. But the tip with the double twisted silver wire is again different. Also may be coming from further north east. The silver tail at the tip of the scabbard is probably a later addition as well.

4) I therefore think that it is a mix of parts collected from various sources to make a dagger.

5) For somewhat similar shape and size daggers, but of far better quality see the fierce discussion in: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...afghan+khanjar

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

Interesting nice mix. Few comments:

1) I agree with Ariel. This is not a Shibriya. The blade shape and cross section, The handle shape, the style of decoration and the style of connection to the belt are all very different from what I am familiar with the Jordanian / Palestinian Shibriya. A Saudi Shibria?? I am not familiar with this.

2) Blade: The shallow diamond cross section is not common in the Jordanian Palestinian ones and also I think it is not very common in other Saudi / Yemenite daggers / Khanjars . For this shape of cross section I would look more North – East of the Arab peninsula: Iraq, Persia and even further east. It may be worth to check the quality of the steel.

3) As Stu noted, There is a big difference in style and decoration technique in the two parts of the scabbard. The lower part, between the locket and the tip of the scabbard is engraved in a very poor technology, very common to decoration technique and style found in Jordan, Palestine and sometimes Syria. But the tip with the double twisted silver wire is again different. Also may be coming from further north east. The silver tail at the tip of the scabbard is probably a later addition as well.

4) I therefore think that it is a mix of parts collected from various sources to make a dagger.

5) For somewhat similar shape and size daggers, but of far better quality see the fierce discussion in: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...afghan+khanjar

Sorry about the late reply.

Yes, there are Saudi made shibriyas, some are made from salvaging parts of Jordanian shibriyas but the Saudi ones are of better quality and silver. Compared to the Jordanian ones which are usually white metal.

The term shibr is the length between the thumb and pinky (I said index before, confused names :P) is the source name for shibriya. Thus what gives these knives the name is their size, rather than the blade shape. Also, I have showed an example of a shibriya completely authentic with a curved khanjar like blade. But its alittle uncommon.

The northern parts of Saudi Arabia has tribes which culturally are more similar to the ones in Jordan.. so they use similar items and dance the dabka etc.

Come to think of it, I think you are correct in thinking the silver filigree is added later, but its an interesting example non the less. The blade seems to be wootz, but I need a stronger etchant :P

Lotfy

[A.alnakkas]

Here is another one. Made by Sufayan of Riyadh. The blade is the usual Shibriya one... forgot to take photo of it xD

Sorry about the poor photos :/

[Oriental-Arms]

Very nice. Much superior to the Jordanian / Palestinian ones.

Did you check the blade of your previous one??

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

Very nice. Much superior to the Jordanian / Palestinian ones.

Did you check the blade of your previous one??

Hey Artzi,

Yes, there is a chance the blade is wootz. I can see some patterns when I etched it with vinegar but its very low I cant be sure... Needs proper polishing the blade has some shallow pitting and scratches.