alameng raja

Ganja Iras · 24th August 2014, 07:05 PM

i presenting the pic of an old bugis alameng
in gold ,diamonds and emerald
a very rare blade and very good condition of scabard and hilt
any comments are welcom

Cheers ,

ganja iras

Robert · 25th August 2014, 01:25 AM

Wonderful, Is there any way that you could post close-up detailed photos of the hilt, blade, scabbard ?

Best,
Robert

Battara · 25th August 2014, 01:27 AM

This is the nicest example I have ever seen!

I have seen pictures of one in silver, but not gold.........Thank you.

What museum is this from?

VVV · 25th August 2014, 06:40 AM

Is it from Sumbawa?

Michael

Sajen · 25th August 2014, 07:37 AM

Hello Ganja Iras,

would like to see some close ups when possible. Here you can see my one in silver: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=alamang

Regards,
Detlef

Ganja Iras · 25th August 2014, 02:11 PM

Hi guys ,

I am sorry that i cant give you more detils pic's now ,but i will do it soon.
and it is from sumbawa ,collected by a young ancient weapons collector in lombok
Thanks ,
Ganja iras

CharlesS · 25th August 2014, 06:47 PM

Lovely, superb example....certainly the cream of the crop of Alamangs from top to bottom.

Ganja Iras · 25th August 2014, 08:28 PM

dear folks ,
here some more pic's of the Alameng and that the best i can do...sorry..

kind regards ,

ganja iras

Tim Simmons · 25th August 2014, 09:07 PM

It has a rather rough look for goldsmiths work? Have you tested the metal with the correct acids?

VVV · 25th August 2014, 09:10 PM

Thanks for the close ups.

It's interesting that it has several quite unique features compared to those found in old pictures and collections.
Does your friend know anything more about it?
Does it have any provenance?

Michael

Ganja Iras · 25th August 2014, 09:26 PM

Hi Michael ,
Thanks for your comments and appreciating my simple post.
Last time i talk to the owner of the alameng ,he only told me about the gold on the sarung and hilt ( 18 karats ) ,the stone is indian emerald and diamonds.
He also told me that he obtain the weapon from Bima ( west nusa tenggara ).
Some of his collections are bugis and most of them are kerisses.
i saw many lombok keris in his display room ,but none of them are for sale and i am not allowed to take a picture in it.

Thanks.

Battara · 26th August 2014, 12:03 AM

The scabbard looks like it is alloyed with silver, not uncommon in that region of the world. Thank you for the close ups!

A. G. Maisey · 26th August 2014, 12:08 AM

I believe testing will reveal that this dress is gilt over silver.

Battara · 26th August 2014, 01:52 AM

Alan, that is also a real possibility.

Sajen · 26th August 2014, 06:28 AM

I also agree by this, I have a Bugis keris in similar fashion where the dress is gilt over silver.
Nice alamang!

Regards,
Detlef

Ganja Iras · 26th August 2014, 05:43 PM

Dear guys ,
Thanks to all of you for the comments .
I think i forget something that this scabard has been tested ,and its solid gold in 18 karats.
Regards ,

Ganja iras

Battara · 26th August 2014, 07:02 PM

Then it is probably alloyed with silver, not uncommon as mentioned previously....

Ganja Iras · 26th August 2014, 08:07 PM

As far as i know ,here in lombok and also bali ,the one who alloyed with silver we call it "SILIASIH " or there is another kind of combination gold & silver we call PIJAHAN / GANDONGAN.
and this one is not one of that kind ,cause its a solid gold in low quality
Thanks

Sajen · 26th August 2014, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganja Iras

As far as i know ,here in lombok and also bali ,the one who alloyed with silver we call it "SILIASIH " or there is another kind of combination gold & silver we call PIJAHAN / GANDONGAN.
and this one is not one of that kind ,cause its a solid gold in low quality
Thanks

18 karat gold means that it is an alloy from 75% gold and 25% silver & copper so far I know. 24 karat mean 99,99% gold content also called fine gold. Here in Europ we have as "good" gold this 18 karat gold because it is more hard. But I know that in Indonesia "good" gold has 23 karat.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 27th August 2014, 11:50 PM

Plus it can be gold alloyed with silver and still be 18k gold........

kerisbiz · 6th November 2017, 02:02 AM

I'm not sure this is a full 18k gold, possibly a gold-plated silver blend material. I have some original toraja sulawesi, and you probably have not made it in Sulawesi because the material and shape of the blade is different. The materials used are also the same as madura kamardhikan kris.
In the handle part is also disproportionate shape, the original sword handle has a philosophy and size, not originally made.

Battara · 6th November 2017, 08:39 PM

So are you saying that this example is a "foreign" made copy?

Interesting. Would you be able to provide pictures of indigenous examples for comparison please?

Sajen · 7th November 2017, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

So are you saying that this example is a "foreign" made copy?

I think he want to say exactly this but I have to disagree, blade shape and constuction is correct, the handle don't look very ergonomic but it's not made for fight and I have seen similar shaped handles and the workmanship don't look recent to my eyes. Others may think different!

Regards,
Detlef

kerisbiz · 13th November 2017, 12:50 AM

I see this sword is not an old sword, I found there are some sulawesi heirlooms derived from ntb wrapped in gold but a form of engraving that seems not made by goldsmith. It is impossible that the king's sword is made by amateurs. Pamor shape and sword shape that is different from the natural sulawesi. pamor 'tongko siso' shaped large, the front edge of the sword shrank and looks dubious. the original average sword has a simple prestige and the sharp side there is 'rakkapeng' at the base with the sword of King Gowa and Raja Bone

24th August 2014, 07:05 PM	#1
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	alameng raja i presenting the pic of an old bugis alameng in gold ,diamonds and emerald a very rare blade and very good condition of scabard and hilt any comments are welcom Cheers , ganja iras Attached Images

25th August 2014, 02:11 PM	#6
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	Hi Hi guys , I am sorry that i cant give you more detils pic's now ,but i will do it soon. and it is from sumbawa ,collected by a young ancient weapons collector in lombok Thanks , Ganja iras

25th August 2014, 08:28 PM	#8
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	hi dear folks , here some more pic's of the Alameng and that the best i can do...sorry.. kind regards , ganja iras Attached Images

25th August 2014, 09:26 PM	#11
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	Hi Hi Michael , Thanks for your comments and appreciating my simple post. Last time i talk to the owner of the alameng ,he only told me about the gold on the sarung and hilt ( 18 karats ) ,the stone is indian emerald and diamonds. He also told me that he obtain the weapon from Bima ( west nusa tenggara ). Some of his collections are bugis and most of them are kerisses. i saw many lombok keris in his display room ,but none of them are for sale and i am not allowed to take a picture in it. Thanks.

26th August 2014, 05:43 PM	#16
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	Hi Dear guys , Thanks to all of you for the comments . I think i forget something that this scabard has been tested ,and its solid gold in 18 karats. Regards , Ganja iras

25th August 2014, 01:25 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Wonderful, Is there any way that you could post close-up detailed photos of the hilt, blade, scabbard ? Best, Robert

25th August 2014, 01:27 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	This is the nicest example I have ever seen! I have seen pictures of one in silver, but not gold.........Thank you. What museum is this from?

25th August 2014, 06:40 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Is it from Sumbawa? Michael

25th August 2014, 07:37 AM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hello Ganja Iras, would like to see some close ups when possible. Here you can see my one in silver: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=alamang Regards, Detlef

25th August 2014, 06:47 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Lovely, superb example....certainly the cream of the crop of Alamangs from top to bottom.

25th August 2014, 09:07 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	It has a rather rough look for goldsmiths work? Have you tested the metal with the correct acids?

25th August 2014, 09:10 PM	#10
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the close ups. It's interesting that it has several quite unique features compared to those found in old pictures and collections. Does your friend know anything more about it? Does it have any provenance? Michael

26th August 2014, 12:03 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	The scabbard looks like it is alloyed with silver, not uncommon in that region of the world. Thank you for the close ups!

26th August 2014, 12:08 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	I believe testing will reveal that this dress is gilt over silver.

26th August 2014, 01:52 AM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Alan, that is also a real possibility.

26th August 2014, 06:28 AM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	I also agree by this, I have a Bugis keris in similar fashion where the dress is gilt over silver. Nice alamang! Regards, Detlef

26th August 2014, 07:02 PM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Then it is probably alloyed with silver, not uncommon as mentioned previously....

26th August 2014, 08:07 PM	#18
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	As far as i know ,here in lombok and also bali ,the one who alloyed with silver we call it "SILIASIH " or there is another kind of combination gold & silver we call PIJAHAN / GANDONGAN. and this one is not one of that kind ,cause its a solid gold in low quality Thanks

27th August 2014, 11:50 PM	#20
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Plus it can be gold alloyed with silver and still be 18k gold........

6th November 2017, 02:02 AM	#21
kerisbiz Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 15	I'm not sure this is a full 18k gold, possibly a gold-plated silver blend material. I have some original toraja sulawesi, and you probably have not made it in Sulawesi because the material and shape of the blade is different. The materials used are also the same as madura kamardhikan kris. In the handle part is also disproportionate shape, the original sword handle has a philosophy and size, not originally made.

6th November 2017, 08:39 PM	#22
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	So are you saying that this example is a "foreign" made copy? Interesting. Would you be able to provide pictures of indigenous examples for comparison please?

13th November 2017, 12:50 AM	#24
kerisbiz Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 15	I see this sword is not an old sword, I found there are some sulawesi heirlooms derived from ntb wrapped in gold but a form of engraving that seems not made by goldsmith. It is impossible that the king's sword is made by amateurs. Pamor shape and sword shape that is different from the natural sulawesi. pamor 'tongko siso' shaped large, the front edge of the sword shrank and looks dubious. the original average sword has a simple prestige and the sharp side there is 'rakkapeng' at the base with the sword of King Gowa and Raja Bone