Poachers bits

[Tim Simmons]

I was given these by a couple who ran a game lodge in northen Uganda in the 60s.I just thought some of you might like to se them.I am a fresh water angler,but I do not use 3-4mm wire.Tim

[Montino Bourbon]

Those look like harpoon heads.

[Conogre]

I'd tend to agree with the assesment of harpoon heads and find it somewhat interesting that one has a tang while the other is socketed.
While Africa has it's share of large fish, the most probable target would likely be crocodiles, which brings us full circle to the fact that they'd probably be poachers heads as many to most tribes considered crocodilians sacred animals and even consuming immediate family members would almost never bring thoughts of retaliation as it would here.
Mike

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Mike, if I remeber she did say crocodile hunting.I think the bait is impailed on the hook with the rope. and dangled in the water from your boat.The beast is then speared with the detachable small harpoon hook with the wire trace, reeled in, then killed silently with a short but very heavy spear which I have in the loft and will post tomorrow.You having been a police officer may have had alligator poachers to apprehend.Tim

[Conogre]

LOL!
Most of my police experience was as a Yankee up in Michigan, Tim, with my first exposure to 'gators here in Florida coming with my two sons and I catching some newly hatched juveniles, amazed by their brilliant coloration and highly unreptilian vocalizations!
And yes, those vocalizations also aquainted us with maternal care in crocodilians and the considerable speed with which an 8 foot reptile can move......luckily, with a young son under each arm, I was able to move even faster!!
The difference between the Discovery Channel, books and hands on experience is literally beyond comparison!!!!!
Mike

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Conogre

LOL!
Most of my police experience was as a Yankee up in Michigan, Tim, with my first exposure to 'gators here in Florida coming with my two sons and I catching some newly hatched juveniles, amazed by their brilliant coloration and highly unreptilian vocalizations!
And yes, those vocalizations also aquainted us with maternal care in crocodilians and the considerable speed with which an 8 foot reptile can move......luckily, with a young son under each arm, I was able to move even faster!!
The difference between the Discovery Channel, books and hands on experience is literally beyond comparison!!!!!
Mike

Hi Mike , didn't some Elder enter the food chain on 'Alligator Alley'* down there recently ?

*Alligator Alley is a road that crosses S.Fla. East to West and goes through some mighty swampy country . There are signs that warn motorists to stay in their cars if they break down .

[Conogre]

Several times, actually, as with more and more land being developed that leaves less and less "wild" for them to be left in.
To make matters even worse, people are notorious for finding one in a retention pond in a mobile home park and then feeding it, ala Betty White in "Lake Placid", which is really bad with an animal that big and with a brain that small, for they soon learn to associate people with food and lose their natural fear of humans.
The case I think you are probably referring to was particularly bad as a very frail elderly lady ran out of food and was rushed by two larger gators with each grabbing a leg and making a wish while doing the famous "gator roll" in full view of a large number of horrified and helpless onlookers, dismembering her on the spot.
It's actually fairly common for them to be found on porches, in swimming pools (ever try to stop in mid-dive? **grin**) and crossing highways on a regular basis, with large specimens making an extremely effective speed bump, even on a freeway, if it's a smaller car.
The biggest fear, of course, is that small children could be at considerable risk as gators choose prey based upon size and movement, not shape or species, while the biggest common outrage is that they seem to particularly relish poodles, hairball or no hairball.**grin**
Mike
Mike

[Tim Simmons]

The killing spear.Around a meter in length.Not something I would like to do at night in a canoe with a Nile crocodile.Tim[IMG]http://[/IMG]

[Freddy]

Tim, I think these harpoons were also used to hunt the bigger animals, like the African buffalo.
The idea is that the point enters the body of the animal. The harpoon point then gets loose from the shaft, but remains attached to it with the cord. In this way, an animal running into the bush gets entangled in the shrubs. It slows the animal down, making it possible for the hunter to follow it much easier. It also weakens the animal through blood loss and so the final blow will be easier to make.

[Conogre]

Smaller game, perhaps, Freddy, but I don't know of a bush raised African stupid enough to throw one of those at a buffalo......trust me, the rope or cable probably wouldn't slow it much, particularly bad because it's more likely to be coming AT you rather than running away, with the cape buffalo being listed among the most dangerous game on the continent.
Not only will they take on a whole pride of lions if needs be, but they were famous for circling around hunters tracking them and turning the tables.
Sweet spear, although I'd be surprised to see a short spear used on anything but a very small croc......usually you want one long enough so that once impaled there's still room between the end of the spear, the animal(either end) and yourself.
The bony plates in crocodilian hides are heavy enough to deflect a spear, arrow or even a small caliber bullet, with only the underside of the throat truly vulnerable.
Mike

[Freddy]

Hi Mike,

Did you know that the Pygmees used to kill elephants with their spears. They first cut the tendants of the elephant's heel to cripple him. Then the animal was killed. These are really small guys, you know.

So, why not a buffalo ?

[Tim Simmons]

I was thinking the same Freddy, these fellows know what they are doing.While they had the croc writhing around infront of them they would choose when to deliver the fatal blow.Tim

[fearn]

Actually, the short killing spear makes some sense, if you're seated in the canoe. Maneuverability and speed are probably more useful than length. After all, do you really want to fiddle around with a two meter pole when there's a croc near the side of the boat?

Presumably the spear is for killing smallish crocs, anyway. If it's bigger than the canoe, then attacking it in the first place would be a *BAD* idea.

Fearn

[Conogre]

In my opinion, trying to drag a croc into a canoe is a bad idea right from the inception as we're dealing with an animal that has a lot of "reflex action" due to large nerve ganglia that is sort of a "step up transformer" from the small brain.
You see the jungle Jim types on animal planet occasionally, but often they were harpooned and then dragged by many individuals up on the bank for dispatching in reality when native populations were concerned.
The pygmy/ elephant point is well taken, but you're dealing with the forest elephant vs the Cape buffalo that isn't a forest dweller, but rather a savanah/plains animal that travells in large herds and a strong likelyhood that the Congo pygmies never even saw one...Africa is a BIG place with not everything found in the same area.
Jungle tribes tended to revere crocodiles rather than kill or poach them, while this attitude is clearly not seen in N. Africa, as evidenced by the many tebu daggers with crocodile belly skin utilized in the scabbards.
Actually, I find the habitats of the animal species much easier to keep track of than the various human populations, even when it's migratory species with a wide range!**grin**
I've got about 30 more years involved in animals than in antique weapons, and actually used to walk a real komodo dragon on a leash back in the 60's, a whole diffreent creature than a Nile monitor, even with the superficial resemblance.
Mike

[tom hyle]

That is one dangerous animal; there is a high rate of incurability for the gangrene caused by its nonvenom (horrible horrible symbiotes in its spit).

[Tim Simmons]

Two men and a baby!

[derek]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Hi Mike,

Did you know that the Pygmees used to kill elephants with their spears. They first cut the tendants of the elephant's heel to cripple him. Then the animal was killed. These are really small guys, you know.

So, why not a buffalo ?

I used to have a book by Turnbull, a Belgian (?) that lived with the pygmies back in the 50's. From what he describes, a poison-tipped spear into the bladder was how they were able to bring down an elephant. The hamstringing came after the animal was weakened..
-d

[tom hyle]

I think he was(?) British.

[derek]

Turnbull is very British name now that I think about it. Was the Congo a Belgian colony at that time?
-d

[Tim Simmons]

I think it is a Colin Turnbull,I read the same book M???? Pymies.He also wrote a book on an East Arfican people called the People of Ike.Tim