DHA / DAAB / GLAIVE

Royston · 6th February 2015, 06:24 PM

Not seen the like of this before.

Chinese pole-arm blade on a Thai hilt ???

It appears correct. When I first saw it I thought there was a bit of spot welding where the blade joins the hilt but on closer inspection it is a bit of turned over silver.

Sorry about the photos, not much light left when I got it home.

A large, two-handed, heavy item.
Blade is 26 inches long
Overall length is 38 inches
1/4 inch thick at the hilt.

Massive ivory hilt with silver dress. The hilt is just over 2 inches in diameter.

All comments welcome.

Regards
Roy

Battara · 6th February 2015, 10:07 PM

That is interesting. It does have a Thai flavor doesn't it, and yet the blade screams Chinese!

VANDOO · 6th February 2015, 11:01 PM

I HAVE SEEN A FEW OF THESE THAT WERE THAI AND CARRIED AT THE FRONT OF PROCESSIONS INVOLVING IMPORTANT PEOPLE. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN WERE A PAIR AND TOO LARGE AND HEAVY FOR ANYTHING BUT CEREMONIAL USE. THEY MAY HAVE USED SOMETHING SIMILAR IN OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE REGION.

Timo Nieminen · 7th February 2015, 12:39 AM

Blade doesn't look especially Chinese to me. Some Chinese influence, sure, but is there any reason to think that it isn't a SE Asian ceremonial blade (whether originally polearm or made-as-sword)?

Nathaniel · 7th February 2015, 06:03 AM

Yes, ceremonial Thai...originally as a sword...all like this are oversized...with the massive ivory handles...and not super fine silverwork, but still impressive. Yes, Chinese influence with the blade. You see Chinese influence so often throughout southeast asia...definitely within Thailand it is very common to find smiths and craftsman of Chinese descent.

Very nice find Royston. Thanks for sharing

Andrew · 7th February 2015, 05:04 PM

Agreed--these are not for fighting. Ceremonial, decorative, display, etc. Some are truly massive and huge.

Royston · 9th February 2015, 07:09 PM

Thanks Gents,

Yes definitely ceremonial. It's too heavy to be of use as a weapon.

Regards
Roy

David · 9th February 2015, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

Yes definitely ceremonial. It's too heavy to be of use as a weapon.

Well, unless you're THIS guy...

Ian · 11th February 2015, 02:37 PM

Roy:

I believe this sword once appeared on the Oriental-Arms web site where Artzi described it as a "monstrous dah sword" from Thailand-Laos (see http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2723). That site also related the popular story about these massive dah being wielded by trained war elephants in battle. Despite a mythical drawing on the Oriental-Arms site showing an elephant fighting with such a large sword, there is little evidence to indicate that war elephants actually wielded these swords in battle.

Another site shows a pair of these swords, with a note that they were distributed to Lanna officers, kept in the howdah and used by its occupants against mounted adversaries (see http://michaelbackmanltd.com/1600.html). Again, there is little evidence that they were used in this fashion.

So the jury is out as to what the function of these massive swords may be. Ceremonial use seems most likely to me, as a demonstration of power and wealth of rulers, or possibly as an execution method but frankly, having handled a few of these, I would prefer a well balanced regular dha for that purpose.

Ian.

Here is a picture of the pair of swords shown on the Michael Blackman site.

------------

ausjulius · 11th February 2015, 04:56 PM

yes they are decorative items. you can still purchase giant dah,
you see them in amulet shops now and then, they are of a more conventional style.

Ian · 11th February 2015, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

yes they are decorative items. you can still purchase giant dah,
you see them in amulet shops now and then, they are of a more conventional style.

ausjulius:

Do these swords found today also have the massive ivory hilt and silver fittings? It seems that they would have been expensive items when made.

Do you think there is any truth to the claim made on the Michael Blackman web site that these were distributed to Lanna military officers for use when mounted on elephants? That site quotes Conway (2002) as a reference for this use, and it seems that there is one of these swords in a museum in Chiang Mai that may support such a claim.

Ian.

Conway, S. Silken Threads Lacquer Thrones: Lan Na Court Textiles, River Books: Bangkok, 2002.

Royston · 12th February 2015, 07:16 PM

Thanks for the information Gentlemen. Ian, it certainly looks like the one on Artzi's site.

Love the idea of an elephant using a sword, but I think it is probably a fallacy.

From the feel of it I think it would be too awkward to use from a Howda, even two-handed it is difficult to swing and it would not be a very effective stabbing weapon. If I was trying to prevent an enemy from climbing onto the elephant I would use a long spear or some form of pole arm.

Mind you, Howda pistols were massive, so perhaps this is just continuing the trend

Regards
Roy

Nathaniel · 13th February 2015, 05:47 AM

Nah, definitely not used by elephants. While elephants are very smart and have impressive dexterity with their trunks eg painting pictures or picking up things even as carefully as a hat off a mans head as well as brut strength ie picking up or rolling logs...it would have not been of practical use for them to have a sword with their trunks...they could just far easier knock a man down or even pick him up with his trunk and toss him...or step on him....

More often than not elephants were used a machines of transporting heavy items such as cannons or other supplies, and assisting with construction or destruction for that matter.

6th February 2015, 06:24 PM	#1
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	DHA / DAAB / GLAIVE Not seen the like of this before. Chinese pole-arm blade on a Thai hilt ??? It appears correct. When I first saw it I thought there was a bit of spot welding where the blade joins the hilt but on closer inspection it is a bit of turned over silver. Sorry about the photos, not much light left when I got it home. A large, two-handed, heavy item. Blade is 26 inches long Overall length is 38 inches 1/4 inch thick at the hilt. Massive ivory hilt with silver dress. The hilt is just over 2 inches in diameter. All comments welcome. Regards Roy Attached Images

7th February 2015, 06:03 AM	#5
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Yes, ceremonial Thai...originally as a sword...all like this are oversized...with the massive ivory handles...and not super fine silverwork, but still impressive. Yes, Chinese influence with the blade. You see Chinese influence so often throughout southeast asia...definitely within Thailand it is very common to find smiths and craftsman of Chinese descent. Very nice find Royston. Thanks for sharing Last edited by Nathaniel; 7th February 2015 at 10:15 PM.

11th February 2015, 02:37 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Roy: I believe this sword once appeared on the Oriental-Arms web site where Artzi described it as a "monstrous dah sword" from Thailand-Laos (see http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2723). That site also related the popular story about these massive dah being wielded by trained war elephants in battle. Despite a mythical drawing on the Oriental-Arms site showing an elephant fighting with such a large sword, there is little evidence to indicate that war elephants actually wielded these swords in battle. Another site shows a pair of these swords, with a note that they were distributed to Lanna officers, kept in the howdah and used by its occupants against mounted adversaries (see http://michaelbackmanltd.com/1600.html). Again, there is little evidence that they were used in this fashion. So the jury is out as to what the function of these massive swords may be. Ceremonial use seems most likely to me, as a demonstration of power and wealth of rulers, or possibly as an execution method but frankly, having handled a few of these, I would prefer a well balanced regular dha for that purpose. Ian. Here is a picture of the pair of swords shown on the Michael Blackman site. ------------ Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 11th February 2015 at 02:59 PM.

6th February 2015, 10:07 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	That is interesting. It does have a Thai flavor doesn't it, and yet the blade screams Chinese!

6th February 2015, 11:01 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE SEEN A FEW OF THESE THAT WERE THAI AND CARRIED AT THE FRONT OF PROCESSIONS INVOLVING IMPORTANT PEOPLE. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN WERE A PAIR AND TOO LARGE AND HEAVY FOR ANYTHING BUT CEREMONIAL USE. THEY MAY HAVE USED SOMETHING SIMILAR IN OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE REGION.

7th February 2015, 12:39 AM	#4
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Blade doesn't look especially Chinese to me. Some Chinese influence, sure, but is there any reason to think that it isn't a SE Asian ceremonial blade (whether originally polearm or made-as-sword)?

7th February 2015, 05:04 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Agreed--these are not for fighting. Ceremonial, decorative, display, etc. Some are truly massive and huge.

9th February 2015, 07:09 PM	#7
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Thanks Gents, Yes definitely ceremonial. It's too heavy to be of use as a weapon. Regards Roy

11th February 2015, 04:56 PM	#10
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 424	yes they are decorative items. you can still purchase giant dah, you see them in amulet shops now and then, they are of a more conventional style.

12th February 2015, 07:16 PM	#12
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Thanks for the information Gentlemen. Ian, it certainly looks like the one on Artzi's site. Love the idea of an elephant using a sword, but I think it is probably a fallacy. From the feel of it I think it would be too awkward to use from a Howda, even two-handed it is difficult to swing and it would not be a very effective stabbing weapon. If I was trying to prevent an enemy from climbing onto the elephant I would use a long spear or some form of pole arm. Mind you, Howda pistols were massive, so perhaps this is just continuing the trend Regards Roy

13th February 2015, 05:47 AM	#13
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Nah, definitely not used by elephants. While elephants are very smart and have impressive dexterity with their trunks eg painting pictures or picking up things even as carefully as a hat off a mans head as well as brut strength ie picking up or rolling logs...it would have not been of practical use for them to have a sword with their trunks...they could just far easier knock a man down or even pick him up with his trunk and toss him...or step on him.... More often than not elephants were used a machines of transporting heavy items such as cannons or other supplies, and assisting with construction or destruction for that matter.