Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th October 2023, 06:21 AM   #1
Pitt1999
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 107
Default Possible Surmene/Laz Kindjal

I won this kindjal on LiveAuctioneers a little while ago and I thought the leather wrap at the throat of the scabbard looked very similar to my other Surmene style knives. Although my other large Surmene knife has a much better looking wrap on it's scabbard. The punch dot decoration along the center of the blade reminded me of similar looking punch dot decorations found on some examples of Laz bichaq/Black Sea yataghan. The dark horn hilt scales almost looked like wood in the auction photos. At the pommel end of the tang there appear to be remnants of what I call pimples or blisters that I have seen on some other Turkish/Balkans knives, if there is a proper term for these little protruding blobs I would love to know. While examining the blade I found these symbols near the tip of the blade. I think it might be a date but I do not recognize the characters. The picture I have is the best picture I could muster, for all I know this could be upside down. Unfortunately this kindjal had a run-in with a belt sander or a grinder of some sort in the past so the blade has that ugly look to it. I added a size comparison to my smaller Turkish kindjal at the end. As usual all comments and questions are welcome.

P.S. This is more of an observation regarding manufacturing standards of the past than this specific dagger. I noticed while looking at the pieces in my collection that a lot of them are bowed or warped to varying degrees. In most cases it doesn't appear to be a result of use, but a manufacturing defect. My 21st century symmetry demanding brain is bothered by this flaw but given how frequently I see it in vintage and antique arms, it seems that people in the past didn't really care all that much.
Attached Images
            
Pitt1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2023, 06:31 AM   #2
Pitt1999
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 107
Default

Forgot to add a photo of those blisters I was talking about.
Attached Images
 
Pitt1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2023, 06:53 AM   #3
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,203
Default

Hi Pitt. I see the year 1898 upside down.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2023, 01:44 PM   #4
Pitt1999
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 107
Default

I had a feeling I was looking at it upside down. I will post that photo again but flipped.
Attached Images
 
Pitt1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2023, 05:27 PM   #5
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 477
Default

I like the stippled decoration. I am a little confused by the western Arabic numerals.

A little unsolicited advice, more for general reference than you Pitt. Some careful work with sandpaper could fix a lot of those machine abrasive marks. Either handheld paper or by creating a block with felt on it to hold the wet/dry paper and moving the blade similar to a Japanese polish/sharpen. I had a blade with very similar damage, but less rounded and no stippling to protect that finished looking like this. Use caution around the point they like to get thin.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Interested Party; 17th October 2023 at 05:41 PM. Reason: add picture
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.