"Archaic" Keris or treated to look old?

VVV · 5th June 2005, 04:35 PM

In response to Bill's enquiry in the Moro Kris thread I took some pics of a Keris I bought in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah. The shop owner didn't have any other keris and unfortunately he didn't have what I actually was looking for either.
The scabbard, as well as the hilt is new but I am not sure if the blade is old or treated with acids to look old. What's strange is that the form/dapur isn't like the other acid treated Keris Buda I have seen as well as it's much bigger than a regular Keris Luk.
What do you think?

Michael

PS To my untrained eyes the metal structure resembles a bit this Keris on Adni's site?
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/ker...ih_sogokan.htm

nechesh · 5th June 2005, 05:58 PM

This is always a point of debate and often enough photographs alone are not enough to make a clear judgement. That being said, my gut instinct on this one is that it is a recently made blade submited to servere acis treatments to make it appear old. It doesn't look like a regular Keris Buda because it is not one at all, though i am not sure exactly what this dapur is called.

Henk · 5th June 2005, 08:52 PM

If this was a real old one, the lambe gadja probably was broken off due the many acid washings. This one looks to much chemical threatend to me.

John · 6th June 2005, 03:34 AM

Michael,

Small world it seems! I've have had the pleasure of seeing and handling the keris in person at the shop you mentioned. A newly Maduran made item. The shop also closed 2 weeks ago. Otherwise I hope you have had a good holiday in Sabah...

VVV · 6th June 2005, 10:30 AM

Thanks all,

Good to know because I have been insecure about this one - is it or is it not...

It looked more buried, like Bill indicated, than the usual dented acid treated look of the faked Keris Buda.

Otherwise it was very nice in Sabah (as usual), John. Even if I didn't find any old blades I managed to pick up some new Silat moves as well as having a great vacation with my family.

Michael

tom hyle · 6th June 2005, 12:18 PM

I have reworked a fair number of buried blades that have been excavated with metal detectors, and I've etched a fair number with a variety of acids. That looks like a buried surface to me; looks pretty much just like one, as opposed to a bath of liquid acid. The way flakes of rust seem to have come off some areas; rust forms in flakes like that; acid doesn't attack that way; it tends more to rounded pits/craters that start from some tiny imperfection in the surface; looks like an excavated blade that has been cleaned (of its burial rust) with acid; most of the lost material would be lost to rust, not to acid.....On the other hand, I hear that in parts of Africa are patches of very acidic (?or something?) soil wherein if one buries newly made things, one digs up "antiques" in a few months or a year....probably anything can be faked.......

5th June 2005, 04:35 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	"Archaic" Keris or treated to look old? In response to Bill's enquiry in the Moro Kris thread I took some pics of a Keris I bought in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah. The shop owner didn't have any other keris and unfortunately he didn't have what I actually was looking for either. The scabbard, as well as the hilt is new but I am not sure if the blade is old or treated with acids to look old. What's strange is that the form/dapur isn't like the other acid treated Keris Buda I have seen as well as it's much bigger than a regular Keris Luk. What do you think? Michael PS To my untrained eyes the metal structure resembles a bit this Keris on Adni's site? http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/ker...ih_sogokan.htm Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 5th June 2005 at 04:47 PM.

6th June 2005, 03:34 AM	#4
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	New keris Michael, Small world it seems! I've have had the pleasure of seeing and handling the keris in person at the shop you mentioned. A newly Maduran made item. The shop also closed 2 weeks ago. Otherwise I hope you have had a good holiday in Sabah...

5th June 2005, 05:58 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	This is always a point of debate and often enough photographs alone are not enough to make a clear judgement. That being said, my gut instinct on this one is that it is a recently made blade submited to servere acis treatments to make it appear old. It doesn't look like a regular Keris Buda because it is not one at all, though i am not sure exactly what this dapur is called.

5th June 2005, 08:52 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	If this was a real old one, the lambe gadja probably was broken off due the many acid washings. This one looks to much chemical threatend to me.

6th June 2005, 10:30 AM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all, Good to know because I have been insecure about this one - is it or is it not... It looked more buried, like Bill indicated, than the usual dented acid treated look of the faked Keris Buda. Otherwise it was very nice in Sabah (as usual), John. Even if I didn't find any old blades I managed to pick up some new Silat moves as well as having a great vacation with my family. Michael

6th June 2005, 12:18 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I have reworked a fair number of buried blades that have been excavated with metal detectors, and I've etched a fair number with a variety of acids. That looks like a buried surface to me; looks pretty much just like one, as opposed to a bath of liquid acid. The way flakes of rust seem to have come off some areas; rust forms in flakes like that; acid doesn't attack that way; it tends more to rounded pits/craters that start from some tiny imperfection in the surface; looks like an excavated blade that has been cleaned (of its burial rust) with acid; most of the lost material would be lost to rust, not to acid.....On the other hand, I hear that in parts of Africa are patches of very acidic (?or something?) soil wherein if one buries newly made things, one digs up "antiques" in a few months or a year....probably anything can be faked.......