"magic" Copper alloy blade

[Pusaka]

Years ago I was in a shop that sold antique keris amongst other Indonesian goods and I was shown a Badik or a Rencong (cant remember exactly) which had a copper alloy blade.
The seller believed it to be able to protect its owner I guess like an amulet. He couldn't tell me what the blade was made from but it was more orange like copper then gold like brass or bronze.
The other thing that I noticed is that the blade was not tarnished like a pure copper blade would be. I guess it was a copper alloy that resisted tarnishing and the only thing I can imagine that would produce such an alloy would be if you added gold to the alloy.
Clearly it was meant for talismanic purposes as such a blade would be soft and unable to keep an edge in comparison to Iron/steel.

Anyone seen a similar blade or know what the name of this metal is?

[David]

Pusaka, i am moving this thread to the Ethno forum since you are inquiring about a blade that is not a keris and we only discuss keris on this forum.
As for the blade, i have heard tell of the use of non-ferric blades used to defeat foes who had a magical protection from iron. However, this is just legend as far as i know.

[Battara]

The type of metal you describe is called suassa/swassa, an alloy of mostly gold and copper (sometimes with a little silver mixed in as well). It makes an orange color. This is common in the Indoneasian-Philippine worlds.

Thus I would suggest that in fact it is talismanic or for ceremonial use.

[Pusaka]

hmmm...basically what we would call rose gold/celtic gold then.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

hmmm...basically what we would call rose gold/celtic gold then.

I would say the suasa has less gold content than rose gold. I've never seen an entire blade made of suasa though. If there was gold in the blade you saw i would think that it would be at an even lower percentage than is generally found in suasa.

[Robert]

Hello Pusaka, A few years back there was what looked to be a rencong with a copper blade listed on epray. I almost bid on it as I have a small collection of Philippine daggers with copper and brass blades, but in the end either decided not to or found something more in my personal field of collecting to spend my money on. I have also heard that these were used to protect their owners from magic from those who wish to do them harm. I have also been told that if one of these were actually used on another person that they were supposed to produce a wound that would not heal and eventually lead to the demise of the person stabbed with one. I even have one example where the blade has been coated with silver arsenic which I assume was to help in hastening that process. Here is a link to some photos of these items. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20787 As for cutting and strength, copper bladed weapons and tools were used for hundreds if not thousands of years before the discovery of brass and bronze. Copper tools were used in the construction of the pyramids and the tombs of many ancient peoples and civilizations.

Best,
Robert

Best,
Robert

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I would say the suasa has less gold content than rose gold. I've never seen an entire blade made of suasa though. If there was gold in the blade you saw i would think that it would be at an even lower percentage than is generally found in suasa.

Twenty years ago I saw an old Solo kris with a nice suasa blade (it may have been gongso or kuningan sari though) in a reliable Jakarta antique shop but my boss did not like it so I did not buy it but I still regret it.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

I've got a brass Javanese keris, and also a cast iron one.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello Pusaka, A few years back there was what looked to be a rencong with a copper blade listed on epray. I almost bid on it as I have a small collection of Philippine daggers with copper and brass blades, but in the end either decided not to or found something more in my personal field of collecting to spend my money on. I have also heard that these were used to protect their owners from magic from those who wish to do them harm. I have also been told that if one of these were actually used on another person that they were supposed to produce a wound that would not heal and eventually lead to the demise of the person stabbed with one. I even have one example where the blade has been coated with silver arsenic which I assume was to help in hastening that process. Here is a link to some photos of these items. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20787 As for cutting and strength, copper bladed weapons and tools were used for hundreds if not thousands of years before the discovery of brass and bronze. Copper tools were used in the construction of the pyramids and the tombs of many ancient peoples and civilizations.

Best,
Robert

Best,
Robert

You can harden copper by alloying with arsenic, perhaps antimony also. One Silat teacher told me in olden days they would rub the blade against a poison frog so if someone got cut it would be fatal but I dont know how accurate that is.
The copper blade I seen was brighter then the ones in your pic, more pink. I guess thats why it stayed in my memory.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by David

I would say the suasa has less gold content than rose gold. I've never seen an entire blade made of suasa though. If there was gold in the blade you saw i would think that it would be at an even lower percentage than is generally found in suasa.

Yes suassa has much less gold than rose gold, not even considered true gold but an alloy only. Less than 10K gold.