Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th September 2005, 04:55 PM   #1
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Smile Formosa Hill Tribe Swords ( for Yuanzhumin )

I thought Barry's suggestion in the Swap forum a good idea !
So in that vein ; here's my one example that has been seen before by many of you .
This is the only sword of its type that I have found and when I acquired it I was unsure of its origin .
We used to have a link to an article on these in the resource section but I find that it has been taken down .

So let's talk about these ; I hope our new Member will share his knowledge ( and pictures ) with us .
Attached Images
    
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2005, 05:55 PM   #2
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
Lightbulb Links to past threads and another site

The link to which Rick referred has been changed and the article can now be found here:

http://sevenstarstrading.com/article...n%20Aborigines

There are also three old threads with much information about other types of Taiwanese swords, and they are here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000582.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000858.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002486.html

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2005, 07:14 PM   #3
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Default

Thank you Ian .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 11:09 AM   #4
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default Formosa Hill tribe sword

As I suggested in my second post on the swapforum, you will find a lot of informations on taiwanese tribes on Wikipedia. For more precise questions, no problem it's my pleasure to answer if I can. Rick, your sword is in fact from Taiwan. It is from the Rukai tribe and If I'm not mistaking should be a little over 50cm long. The Rukai and the Puyuma are two sub-groups of the Paiwan. They share a lot of common things with the Paiwan but still have their own particularities. They are living in the southern mountains of the island (if you have a good atlas, they are in the mountains 20 to 30 km away from the southern city of Pingtung) and are around 10 000 thousands today (the Paiwan proper are around 60 000 and the Puyuma, 10 000). These three tribes are mountain or hill tribes (by opposition with some other lowland or plain tribes of Taiwan). They were fierce headhunters, in a ritual purpose. They were among the last with the Bunun and the Atayal to fight against the Japanese before they were "pacified" in the twenties. But still some case of head huntings were reported at the end of the fourties. They were among the best soldiers when they fought in the rank of the Japanese army in the Pacific war (Taiwan was a japanese colony at that time and the aborigines considered themselves, after their pacification, as loyal subjects of the Emperor). They were very well known as military scouts, and if I don't mistake one of the last lost japanese soldiers to reappear from the jungle of South East Asia in the 70's was in fact a taiwanese aborigine. Concerning the swords or knives, the Paiwan (and the sub-groups which the Rukai are among) and the Yami that inhabits the Orchid Island (Lanyu in chinese, Botel Tobago former name), that are very well known for their pirogues, adorns their sheaths with motives. In the case of the Rukai, like on your sword, Rick, the serpent is fundamental as it is reprensenting the main ancestor of the tribe, a pattern that can be found on nearly every Paiwan objects.
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 01:14 PM   #5
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
Default

Yuanzhumin:

Would you also care to identify the tribal origins of the following swords and knives?

Example A: This one is from the collection of the distinguished host of this web site, Dr. Lee Jones, who posted the following pictures in 2001. OAL 28.75 inches (73 cm)







Examples B,C,D: These are from my own collection.
B: OAL 19.75 inches. (50 cm)
C: OAL 24 inches. (61 cm)
D: OAL 34 inches (86 cm -- the largest of this style I have seen)








Example E: Another one of mine




Thanks for any additional information you may have.

Ian.

Last edited by Ian; 17th September 2005 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Added dimensions in cm
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 01:41 PM   #6
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

This is my one, sorry the picture is not very good. I am having peoblems with my camera wizard loading and editting program. This is the only one of these I have seen in the UK since I have been collecting. It was only through this site that I found out it was from Formosa. The total length of the blade and handle is 59 cm. Tim
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Tim Simmons; 17th September 2005 at 03:31 PM. Reason: adding more pictures
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 03:47 PM   #7
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default pictures around 1900

Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 03:48 PM   #8
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default more

Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 03:52 PM   #9
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default more

Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 03:57 PM   #10
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Wink Answer to Rick, Ian and Tim on the Taiwan knives

I'm happy and flattered to have created such an interest in Taiwanese knives. Congratulations to all of you that showed me pictures ! You have all very nice knives from Taiwan. If one day you want to depart from them, don't forget to tell me first ! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/images/icons/icon12.gif Well, I don't know from where to begin.

The first that was shown to me (Rick's one) was from the Rukai tribe, one of the Paiwan sub-group in the south of the island. It was straight, and straight is the way to recognise between the southern tribes' knives and the northern' ones. All the knives you have shown me after Rick's one are curved (even if it is slightly), so they are from the northern tribes. The common point to all the taiwanese tribes knives (southern, central and northern) is the one-sided sheaths and no guards.
-So this is for Ian :
Example A: you have a nice Atayal knife. I love the 'naked handle'. It is so modern and design !
Example B and D : These are nice Bunun or Tsou knives. These are the central tribes. Their knives are not as curved as the Atayal and not straight like the Paiwan. The two tribes are very close, and their knives (and other cultural traditions) difficult sometimes to distinguish. The Bunun are the most mountainous of the Taiwanese tribes, living at the highest altitude, considering the Yushan (formerly known as Mount Morrison) as a sacred mountain. The Yushan (close to 4000 m high) is one of the highest peak in South East Asia.
C and D : Two other nice Atayal knives. The D is original for its length as you said, Ian, as usually the 'standard length' is between 50 and 60cm.

-This is for Tim : Your knife has very nice proportions, the shape of the sheath is in the best Atayal style, beautiful... except one important thing : Atayal knives, I mean their sheathes, are not colored. I'm sure, without looking carefully at the red pigments I see on it, that this is not tribal painting but chemical painting done later.


The Atayal are the principal group of the northern tribes. They are formed of three sub-groups : the Atayal proper, the Truku (Taroko) and the Seedeq. They are very close in their cultural traditions but still have enough differences, mostly in the language (half the same). The Atayal are today something like 60 000. The Atayal women are the best weavers and dressmakers of all the taiwanese tribes and they are renowned for their shellbeads clothes or shellbead jewellery.The Atayal, in opposition to the Paiwan groups, don't sculpt or carve the wood. So when the Rukai sheath is full of motives, like Rick's knife, the Atayal have none. But I would say that their beauty is not in the details but in the shape. Look at these blades slightly curved, the handles and the blades being one (example A from Ian and the one from Tim)! Their simplicity, purety is so modern. Even today the best designers with all their computers would not create a better balanced shape. Look at the sheath with the knife inside, it is not carved on it, but the whole together is like a sculpture. The sheath of the Atayal knife has the shape of a fish jumping out of the water, with the top bottom of the sheath being the tail and, on the middle edge of some sheathes (see the one from Tim), a kind of "back" fin, very slight, nearly invisible but so classy.
Well, sorry for being so long !
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 04:24 PM   #11
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
Default Thanks

Yuanzhumin:

Thank you for the prompt and informative responses. I think there are several people here who have collected these knives over the years. Apart from the book, Material Culture of the Formosan Aborigines by Professor Chen Chi-Lu, I have found very little to describe these swords and knives. The older ones I have handled have been uniformly well made with well forged blades, and sheaths that have been carved and fitted to the knives with considerable skill.

There are, of course, modern "interpretations" which seem to have been made for the tourist industry. These come up from time to time on eBay and are usually mislabeled as "African" because of the animalistic carvings to the sheath and handles. I have seen both straight and curved varieties of these modern knives and swords, none of which have the quality of older pieces.

Can you shed any light on whether knives and swords are still being made in the traditional manner by the respective Taiwanese aboriginal groups?

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2005, 11:32 PM   #12
zalmoxis
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: GA USA
Posts: 76
Default Is this Formosan?

It is 13 inches long. Sharp blade.
Attached Images
 
zalmoxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2005, 03:35 AM   #13
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
Default More likely Naga or ABor

Zalmoxis:

The rattan wrap on the handle looks typical work of the Naga or some of the nearby tribes, such as the Abor, in N.E. India. The closed scabbard is not typical of Naga or Abor, and may not be original to this knife; the scabbard could perhaps be from another nearby group or the result of an inappropriate "marriage." Nice looking functional knife.

Here is one from the old forum that is attributed to the Abor people who live in N. Assam and neighboring Tibet, on the other side of the Bramaputhra River from the Naga. This one has an open scabbard similar to Naga dao, and reminiscent of the ones shown above on some Taiwanese swords and knives. There is no clear connection, however, between the Abor and Naga in N.E. India and the tribal groups of central and northern Taiwan that might suggest this is anything more than coincidence.

Ian.


Dao of the Abor people of N. Assam and nearby Tibet



Last edited by Ian; 18th September 2005 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Picture added
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2005, 08:27 PM   #14
zalmoxis
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: GA USA
Posts: 76
Default

Ian thank you for info. I have another one almost identical in regard of the wooden sheath. I will post a pic later. Maybe the small knives from Naga had this kind of sheaths? The other one also this small size. I am not a specialist on the Naga but I have 2 daos and they are huge. Maybe they are women knives?
zalmoxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2005, 09:35 PM   #15
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
Default

Zalmoxis:

Please do post pictures.

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2005, 11:44 PM   #16
zalmoxis
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: GA USA
Posts: 76
Default

The sheath is not wood but bamboo of some sort while the first one is the same. Sorry for confusion. Both sheaths are bamboo. Maybe this is helpful. Does bamboo grow on Nagas territories?
Attached Images
 
zalmoxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2005, 04:10 AM   #17
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default Answers and comments

#To Zalmoxis : To answer your question, your knives are definitely not Taiwanese/Formosan.

#To Ian : I have personally not heard of any artists/craftsmen in Taiwan keeping on the traditional way of making tribal knives. May be there few very still doing it, but I don’t know of them. It could be possible, but I doubt it. You can find some knives produced today by the tribes for their own use or to sell to the outsiders, but they are not anymore made following the old ways, at least not for the blades. Even in the taiwanese (NOT aboriginal) knifemaking tradition, all the family little brands have disappeared. Only one is left that makes original handcrafted knives (if you are interested I can send you infos on him). But after this guy, it is finished. So for the aborigines, whose life have changed dramatically under the modernization of the last fifty years, and that have lost many of their traditions, may be only few of them, certainly old fellows, may have kept the knowledge, but I don’t think they are using it.

#Thanks to Tim for the photos.
-They were taken (I see the name written under them) by James W Davidson. He was an interesting guy, that arrived as a war reporter in Taiwan in 1895, covering the sino-japanese war, then the arrival of Japanese troops (in which he took some unexpected parts) and the building of the first Japanese colony (that lasted for 50 years). At that time, he was not anymore a reporter but a consul, the American consul in Taipei. He wrote a very interesting book on Formosa/Taiwan history published in 1903. It was the first book on the subject of Taiwan. There was a new print of this book recently (SMC Publishing Inc., Taipei).
-In the first picture, the one with the Ami warriors, we can see a sword that is exactly in the style of the Taiwanese southern tribes : no guard, straight and not curved, open one-sided sheath with metalic staples. The handle looks like Rick’s sword displayed in the previous photos on the same thread, but it’s definitely Ami, not Rukai because the rest of the sheath is not as decorated as Rick’s one, because of the dress of the two warriors, mostly their hats. The Ami are the largest Taiwanese tribal group with today nearly 150 000 members. They live on the south eastern coast, between the cities of Hualien and Taitung. They have a matrilineal society.
-In the second photo, we see an Atayal warrior, so if he had a knife, it would be like Tim’s one or Ian’s example A,C and D that are shown before in the thread.
-The third picture : He has no knife on the photo, but if he had one it would be exactly like Rick’s one, as it is a Rukai chief that is shown. There is little mistake in the legend of the picture as Tainan is a city, not a tribe. But the city is not far away from the Rukai’s territory. It is definitely a Rukai chief with the right of the nobility to wear a dress made of snow leopard skin, the feather in the head ornament, the sun made of teeth (usually pigs teeth; in this case, leopard teeth) on the front of the cap and the shell band over the shoulder.
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2005, 04:14 AM   #18
zalmoxis
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: GA USA
Posts: 76
Default

Please send me info on the guy who still makes knives the traditional way.
zalmoxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2005, 10:09 AM   #19
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Thank you yuanzhumin, for giving such enlightened information on the photographs. The book has many amazing pictures from around the world but was compiled at the beginning of the 20th century and is written in a very imperial manner, the text on some parts of the world borders on ridicule and any facts stated really have to be thought about. Tim
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2005, 01:24 PM   #20
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default A Taiwanese (NOT aboriginal) knife maker

Hereunder is an article taken from the 'Taiwan Review' about the knife maker, one of the last in Taiwan, to keep on doing knives following his family tradition. If you want pictures, I can send one or two.

Cultured Blade
Publish Date: 06/01/2002
Story Type: ARTS; METALWORK
Byline: JIM HWANG

PHOTOS BY HUANG CHUNG-HSIN

"There are numerous folding knives on the market, but this is the first and only one born and bred in Taiwan, and this is the only shop that sells them."

The Kuo Ho Chi knife shop is situated on Tapei Street, close to the original location. It is just a few minutes' walk from the busiest section of the Shihlin Night Market.


The Shihlin Night Market in northern Taipei is a popular spot for the young and not-so-young to gather after work. Thronged with visitors nearly every evening, the busy bazaar offers all kinds of snacks plus a wide assortment of clothing, furniture, and CDs. After their stomachs and shopping bags have both been stuffed, most visitors consider that there is no reason to linger. But those who are willing to explore a bit further may discover that the Shihlin district has another attraction.

On Tapei Road, a narrow street just a few minutes' walk from the busiest section of the night market, lies the small Kuo Ho Chi cutlery shop founded by Kuo Ho in 1869. For more than 130 years in virtually the same location, the shop has been making a special folding pocketknife originally known as the Pachihlan knife--but called the Shihlin knife ever since Pachihlan was renamed Shihlin after the end of the Japanese colonial period in 1945. "There are numerous folding knives on the market, but this is the first and only one born and bred in Taiwan, and this is the only shop that sells them," says thirty-three-year-old Kuo Ming-jang, the great-great-grandson of the founder.

Kuo Ho, who learned from a Cantonese craftsman the basics of making a piece of metal into a blade, was the creator of a unique pocketknife featuring an eggplant-shaped handle and bamboo-leaf-shaped blade. Why he was inspired to come up with this particular design is unknown, but the shape of the handle furnishes a superior grip and the blade is both attractive and highly effective for cutting, paring, and even shaving. Three major components--a buffalo-horn handle with brass liner, a brass lock-back (the piece of metal at the top of the handle that releases the blade from a locked position), and an iron-clad steel blade--are assembled with brass pins to form the folding knife. Although iron rusts, Kuo Ming-jang explains, the cladding protects the hard-but-brittle steel just as the wooden shaft in a pencil protects the lead inside, and it therefore increases the blade's durability.

The Pachihlan folding knife won several knifemaking contests during the Japanese occupation. Although considered rather expensive, they were very popular due to their quality, durability, and convenience to carry. Up until the 1970s and early 1980s, they were still commonly used by all kinds of people from fishermen to betel-nut vendors. "It was in my father's tool bag--he was a mechanic at the Directorate General of Telecommunications," recalls twenty-six-year-old knife collector Yang Shih-huang. "I saw it used by farmers when there was still plenty of farmland near my home in Panchiao, and it was used by almost all the wet-market vendors. It was indispensable."

At the peak of the business, some twenty shops along Tapei Road made Shihlin pocketknives. Kuo Ming-jang's grand father and his four brothers were all in the trade, and the supply still could not meet the demand. But rapid industrialization caused major changes in the market. After mass-produced, machine-made knives started to appear, the handmade products became less price-competitive, and many knife craftsmen turned to other trades to make a living. When Kuo Wen-cheng, Kuo Ming-jang's father, was running the shop, Kuo Ho Chi had become the only cutlery store left on Tapei Road.

Being the only supplier of handmade Shihlin pocketknives, however, did not make life easier. Kuo Ming-jang notes that an experienced craftsman like him, using power tools, can make three folding knives a day at most, but a small factory can produce at least three hundred. "What's worse is that there wasn't any such thing as copyright protection more than a hundred years ago, so anyone can mass produce this folding knife with its eggplant-handle and bamboo-leaf-blade," he says. "The average consumers can't tell the difference between the handmade and machine-made versions in quality and craftsmanship, but they can tell the difference in price, and they see no reason to buy the more expensive one." To survive, Kuo Ho Chi started to make kitchen knives in the 1970s, and it has been selling various imported cutlery items such as scissors and collectors' knives since about 1990.

nlike the first three generations of owners who worked until well into their seventies, Kuo Wen-cheng opted for early retirement nine years ago at the age of fifty-two. Kuo Ming-jang says that a major reason for his father's decision was a shift in the market brought about by the introduction of the hobby of knife collecting to Taiwan. "Cutlery collectors want more--a little artistic touch or better blades, for example--but that didn't make much sense to father, who believed that a knife is a tool and only needs to be sharp and durable. He didn't want to compromise, but in light of the customer feedback, he felt that if he was no longer making something the market wanted, he should retire."

Part of the family tradition was that the craft should be taught only to sons, though not all the male offspring had the same capability or interest. Kuo Wen-cheng taught the art of knifemaking to all three of his sons, but one left the business because looking at the flames in the furnace strained his poor eyesight and another quit simply from lack of interest. So at the age of twenty-four, second son Kuo Ming-jang took over as the proprietor--the fifth-generation of Kuos to run the shop. Taking a more flexible view than had his father, the young Kuo concluded that sticking with the century-old business formula would be a recipe for disaster. In terms of sheer practicality, for example, he saw that the family's traditional single-blade pocketknife would be hard put to compete against the increasing number of knives on the market with multiple functions, sometimes in the dozens. To hone the Shihlin knife's competitive edge, the new boss started to add some "collectability" to the product by offering a broader selection of sizes and materials. Now customers can choose among twelve sizes--from eight-tenths of an inch to six inches in length. The old models with buffalo-horn handles and the easy-to-rust iron-clad blades are still available, but new versions have also been added, retaining the basic original design but with options of plastic or wood handles as well as blades made of different qualities of steel.

The top-of-the-line model is fitted with a blade made of Damascus steel, and the metal shows the natural patterns found only on steel of very high grade. The process is to heat up a piece of steel until it is red hot, hammer it to a certain length and width, and then fold it in half. As the process is repeated, the properties of the steel are changed gradually until the desired quality is reached. Different methods of folding and hammering result in different patterns on the final products.

Depending on the size, type of handle, and the level of quality of the steel, the price tag on a Shihlin pocketknife now ranges between NT$1,200 and $25,000 (US$34.29 and $714.29). These are considered to be quite reasonable prices compared with those of brand-name collectors' knives. But in addition to price, cutlery collectors judge the value of a piece from several other perspectives such as the detail work of the craftsmanship and the quality of steel. Yang Shih-huang, whose collection covers many brand-name knives such as Al Mar and Cold Steel, regards Kuo Ming-jang's Shihlin knives as every bit the equal of the output from those famous manufacturers.

For their raw material, Kuo Ming-jang points out, most knifemakers now buy what the steel mills designate as cutlery steel, possessing properties especially suitable for knives. Some use the steel as it is, while others employ various heat treatment or refining skills to change the microstructure of the steel to meet individual requirements. "The harder the metal, the sharper--but more brittle--the blade," Kuo explains. "The key is to reach a balance between hardness and elasticity, and individual craftsmen have different ideas about where that point of balance should come." On the average, craftsmen make their knives with a Rockwell Hardness between 56 and 62, and Kuo's blades are between 58 and 60. (Rockwell Hardness is a measure of resistance to penetration when material is exposed to a pointed load. The higher the number, the harder the material. Victorinox, the manufacturer of the Swiss Army Knife, uses steel measuring 55 to 56 on the Rockwell Hardness scale.)

After spending eleven to twelve hours a day on the craft since he graduated from junior high school eighteen years ago, Kuo Ming-jang is confident about his skills and his products. Exquisite craftsmanship and the wider range of products, however, have not brought much financial reward. Hsieh Chiu-wei, Kuo Ming-jang's wife, who used to sell imported cutlery at a Taipei department store, says that Taiwan lacks the kind of environment in which a craftsman can make a living by producing Shihlin knives alone. "Foreign cutlery craftsmen have the opportunity to gain both fame and wealth," she says. "But knife craftsmen in Taiwan, though they are just as dedicated, don't receive much recognition either from the government or the rest of society. They need to depend pretty much on themselves for survival."

Kuo Ming-jang himself does not seem to be bothered much by the limited financial gain. "It takes this much time to reach this level of quality and make this much money, and there's no other way unless you're willing to lower the quality in exchange for higher productivity," Kuo says. "Kuo Ho Chi has been giving quality first priority for more than 133 years, and I intend to uphold that tradition." If all goes well, Kuo Ming-jang will be able to keep the tradition going for another several decades. But what then? Kuo and his wife do not yet have any children. Even when he does, Kuo says he will probably not encourage them to learn a craft that may leave them barely able to feed their families. For the century-old Taiwanese blade, it seems that the future no longer looks very sharp.
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2005, 04:28 AM   #21
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default About Taiwanese tribal weapons and else in museums

Hello,
I found this nice picture of a Paiwan sheath in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York (pic.1). In their collections, there is also a house post from the Yami tribe. In the Louvre museum in Paris, they have a beautiful 3 m house post from the Paiwan tribe (pic.2), but no weapons from them. In the Barbier-Mueller Museum in Geneva, they have few knives, tunics and panels from different Formosan tribes. There are also quite big collections in Japanese museums. Apart this, do you know any other museums in the world that would have taiwanese tribal weapons or other artifacts in their collections (except Taiwan) ? Thanks for your help.
Attached Images
  
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2005, 10:26 AM   #22
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Hello all, I have this mask ornament, that I acquired over a decade ago in a church hall market from a retired lady. She said she got it in Formosa/Taiwan where she worked after ww2. She went on to explain that they were attached to the outside of hill tribes peoples homes as a good talisman, length 31cm. This may all be a load of old nonsense, hopefully someone might be able to say yes or no. I know I am drifting off from weapons but I thought I might just squeeze it in this little discussed area.
What fun! you can see my warm rosy glowing aura permeate the picture no it is morning sun light reflecting off a shiny red painted wall . Tim
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st October 2005 at 02:47 PM.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2005, 10:44 AM   #23
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default Aura suppressed

clear light
Attached Images
 
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2005, 03:57 AM   #24
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default A Rukai sword/knife like Rick's one

Hello
No, Tim, your mask is not taiwanese.
Taiwanese aboriginal tribes have NO mask. It is not in their tradition.
The Atayal and the Saysiat were tatooing their faces for religious purpose (see pic 1); the Yami (Tao) were having a special kind of very interesting ritual silver helmet that, placed on the head, was covering the face, but it was not a mask (pic 2).
On this last pic, you can catch a glimpse of the traditional Yami knife.
Yuanzhumin
Attached Images
  
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2005, 04:53 AM   #25
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default This not Taiwanese

Hello
It seems that I inverted the titles of these two last posts. Sorry.
This second post is to share pictures of a very nice Rukai's knife, of the same kind that Rick showed us before. So, Rick and the others interested, enjoy !
These photos are coming from the catalogue presenting the biggest private collection in the world of Taiwanese aboriginal artifacts. This collection is located in Taiwan.
Yuanzhumin.
Attached Images
   
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 06:51 AM   #26
yuanzhumin
Member
 
yuanzhumin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China
Posts: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
:

Can you shed any light on whether knives and swords are still being made in the traditional manner by the respective Taiwanese aboriginal groups?

Ian.
I remember that, in a previous thread posted few months ago, Ian asked me if there were still some tradition of making knife « old ways » among the taiwanese aboriginal groups/hill tribes.
I read recently the hereafter interesting article and thought it was, in some ways, answering the question.
(In order to better understand the context : Truku (or Taroko) is the name of one of the 13 officially recognised aboriginal tribes of Taiwan. Most of them are highlands tribes, the Truku is one of them, belonging to the famous Atayal group.)

Yuanzhumin


Publish Date: 06/01/2006
Story Type: ARTS; CRAFTS; PROFILES
Byline: JIM HWANG
PHOTOS BY CHANG SU-CHING
Nmah·Yioudau makes knives from truck springs and passes on the Truku knife-making heritage to a fifth generation.
Nmah·Yioudau wields his wares.

Carrying some salt, flint and a knife, a Truku man can survive in the jungle for weeks and come home with plenty of prey. His people have made their home in the mountains along Taiwan's east coast for centuries. "Clearing paths, chopping wood and defending ourselves, we never leave home without our blades," says chief Nmah·Yioudau. "To a Truku man, his knife is his most valuable possession--his life counts on it."
Nmah is the third generation of knife makers in his family. Born in 1938 in Tungmen Village, Hualien County, he followed his father into the woods from the age of five and killed his first bear at 18. Although knives are now used less as weapons and tools in daily life, Truku men still treasure them for their cultural significance. Tradition has it that a groom presents a knife to each of his bride-to-be's brothers upon betrothal and a newborn boy receives one from the most senior family member as a blessing. "Wearing a knife at ceremonies or presenting one as a gift is the ultimate sign of respect to one's heritage and family," says Nmah.
The Truku made their first "edged tools" from stone and wood. Later, they traded the fruit of their hunting and weaving with Han immigrants from China for metal blades. It was not until the Japanese occupation (18951945) that the Truku acquired sophisticated forging skills. In fact, the Truku were one of the indigenous peoples that fought most bravely against the Japanese when they first colonized Taiwan. Nmah has one of his grandfather's knives with a Japanese soldier's hair tied to the sheath.
The Truku were formidable opponents in the mountains, and the Japanese found it difficult to govern in remote mountainous areas, so they sought to lure people down to more manageable climes. Once the Japanese had reined in the Truku, they taught them how to make edged weapons from steel. Lshi·Darang, Nmah's grandfather, took the bait and became one of the first Truku knife makers.
During World War II Nmah's grandfather contributed to the Japanese war effort by making military swords. After the war, he carried on the blacksmith trade and passed on the craft to his son and Nmah's father, Yioudau·Lshi. "I was always around when grandpa and dad were making farm tools and blades. Later dad let me be his assistant," Nmah recalls. "It's hard not to know everything about smithery when you grow up in one."
Although Nmah was not particularly interested in blacksmithing, he quit his job as a stone carver and went home to run the family business when Yioudau·Lshi passed away in 1961. "The noise and heat make it a lousy place to work and forging blades and farm tools wasn't going to make me a fortune," Nmah says. "I decided to return simply because I couldn't let this heritage wither in my hands."
Knife handles were once bound with rattan thread but now synthetic materials are used.

The material Nmah uses to forge blades comes from truck springs. This inexpensive, old carbon steel is easily found in vehicle graveyards, and performs just as well as modern cutlery steel. Depending on the length of the blades to be made, the steel is cut into pieces between 20 and 50 centimeters long. The knife maker then repeatedly heats the steel until it is red hot and pounds it flat on an anvil. This forms the basic shape of the knife and removes any impurities from the steel. The temperature of the furnace and the power put into hammering the steel are controlled by the blacksmith and vary according to experience.
The blade is then left to cool, ground to shape and quenched. Quenching, according to Nmah's eldest son Baolu·Nmah, is the process that determines the quality of the blade. The blade is put back into the furnace until it is again red hot, then about a third of it is dipped into a shallow trough of water. The sudden change in temperature creates a harder, more durable edge, while the unquenched spine stays soft and keeps the blade from breaking when in use. "Whether a blade comes out well or not depends on the angle at which it's plunged into the water and the time it's left there," says Baolu. "These things rely on experience rather than precision machines."
The tang of the blade is then inserted into a wooden handle. In the past, handles were wrapped with thread made of rattan for a better grip, but now Nmah uses mostly synthetic thread since rattan is harder to find and more expensive. One can also make knives with hollow handles, where one end of the steel is forged into a blade and the other into a tubular handle. While hollow handles allow for the attachment of wooden shafts to form spears, the concealed tang and solid handle type better absorbs shock.
After the final sharpening and polishing, the knife is ready to be fitted with a sheath. Truku knives use a one-sided wooden sheath. The shape of the blade is traced onto a piece of wood and then a sort of cage of metal wire is fitted. The outside of the wooden half of the sheath is decorated with tribal designs scorched on its surface. Baolu explains that the simple design offers two advantages--it is light, and its easy drainage deters rust.
Depending on their length, basic knives sell for between NT$1,200 and $2,000 (US$38 and $63). Tailor-made knives cost a little more, and there are also the mini "tourist versions" that cost about NT$200 (US$6). Although power hammers and grinders have replaced human muscles and sharpening stones, the number of hand-forged blades that can be produced in a day is limited. Nmah can probably finish five knives at full steam, but Baolu can do only three at best. Spending all day in the workshop, the father and son barely meet the demand from tribesmen, mountain-climbing clubs and agencies such as the Forestry Bureau and the Taiwan Power Co.
Business was not so good when Nmah first started out, but improved greatly under the direction of Miji·Wuhai, his late wife. "Dad was the best knife maker and mom was the best sales rep," Yumei·Nmah says of her mother and father. Nmah's eldest daughter is now responsible for sales. "My mother never had any formal education, but she had some great business ideas." Yumei explains that they only sold to nearby tribes in the beginning, but her mother thought that a knife was a necessary tool not just for the Truku but other indigenous peoples as well.
Both of these blades belonged to Nmah·Yioudau's grandfather. The lower one sports a buffalo-horn sheath.

To reach new customers, she visited almost all of Taiwan's indigenous tribes--by bus and on foot initially, then by motorcycle when she could afford one. "She was so confident in the quality of dad's knives that she'd give a 'sample' to a chief. He'd give it a try and then recommend it to his people," Yumei says. "Almost all Taiwan's tribes knew this little Truku woman who traveled with a bunch of knives, and dad's knives became popular all over the island."
The expanding market also provided a good opportunity for Nmah to sharpen his skills. Generally, mountain tribes prefer curved blades that are easier to carry and less likely to slip out of sheaths in the alpine forests, while plains' people go for the straight blades that suit a more level life. Although the basic principles of forging are the same, the pounding and quenching techniques vary, and Nmah came to master them all.
The knife-making craft was not uncommon among indigenous peoples during the Japanese colonial period, but for one reason or another most makers gave it up or failed to pass it on. Although there are still a handful of aboriginal knife makers, Nmah's line is the only one that has kept the craft in the family for more than a century. He once worried that there would be no one in the family to pass the craft on to. "My sons left home to do other jobs. None of the young tribesmen ever asked me to teach them, which I'm more than happy to do," Nmah says. "I wasn't at all optimistic about the future of the craft."
Fortunately, his concern was unfounded. Baolu returned several years ago to work with his father and is gradually mastering the craft. Denai·Nmah, Baolu's younger brother, has also decided to join the family workshop. "Dad's always believed that knife making is one of the most valuable parts of Truku culture," Denai says. "My family has been at the forge for a century--it's in my blood." What is even more encouraging is Denai's eldest son, who is about to complete high school, has also shown great interest in the craft and has been spending most of his holidays picking up all the tricks of the trade.
Knowing that the craft will be carried on for at least another two generations, Nmah happily continues to forge more blades every day. From time to time, he takes a break, picks up his trusty blade and strolls into the woods. Hunting is of course forbidden, but on occasion Nmah happens upon small, wounded animals that stop breathing right in front of him. Out of humanity, he takes them home to see if they can be revived, but his efforts are sadly, and nearly always, in vain. "Hunting, in a way, is just like knife making," Nmah says. "It's no longer about necessity but about preserving a unique part of Truku heritage."
yuanzhumin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2008, 05:58 PM   #27
KuKulzA28
Member
 
KuKulzA28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: between work and sleep
Posts: 731
Default

I've been doing some research... since I am Taiwanese, a big blade aficionado, and I like Aborigine knives.... well why the hell not? So here's some contact information some of you may like.

That maker's contact info is as follows:
Nmah Yioudau's contact info:
No.2-3, Wenlan Village, Xiulin Township, Hualien County
Tel: 886-3-864-1521
In Chinese:
恩馬 ‧尤道
花蓮縣秀林鄉文蘭村2-3號
There's another maker in the Hualien area, in Copper-Gate Village:
連茂鐵店電話:(03) 864-1281
It's probably gonna be most effective if you speak Mandarin or Taiwanese. I dunno if they are Truku speakers but probably... and if YOU can speak Truku then damn, I don't know why I am advising you!
KuKulzA28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2008, 05:02 PM   #28
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
This is my one, sorry the picture is not very good. I am having peoblems with my camera wizard loading and editting program. This is the only one of these I have seen in the UK since I have been collecting. It was only through this site that I found out it was from Formosa. The total length of the blade and handle is 59 cm. Tim

I don t think this is formosa Tim you can find an pic in the National geographic magazine from september 1912 page 854 .

Ilongot it might be .

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2008, 05:09 PM   #29
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Ben,

I am happy to believe you, but would need a picture, otherwise I will have to go with the information and examples we have here from this site. post the picture please
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2008, 04:51 AM   #30
KuKulzA28
Member
 
KuKulzA28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: between work and sleep
Posts: 731
Default

Is this one Taiwanese Aboriginal? Tribal Burmese? It's advertised as African...

Link 1, 2
KuKulzA28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.