Rapier blade marking

Triarii · 20th July 2023, 09:50 PM

I've just acquired a rapier, first quarter of the C17th (ish). Hilt is AVB Norman type 58 (happy to be corrected) and the pommel matches the era / hilt type. Still has its original spiral wood grip under the broken wire.

The blade has indecipherable letters and markings - so far - on the ricasso and this (picture 3) on one side of the blade. I've looked in the Wallace Collection guide and there are some contenders for circular marks with words around the centre but there's only what appears to be an E or L to go on.
Anyone an ideas as to whose marking it might be?

Triarii · 16th August 2023, 11:52 AM

I'm wondering if this mark - based on the limited number of marks we know - is Gastione Franchescho.
Picture from Wallace Collection catalogue A602, but the mark on that is on the ricasso, not the blade, though I failed to photograph that one when last there.

Does anyone have any photos of his mark on other swords?

Jim McDougall · 17th August 2023, 07:27 PM

It is unfortunate that there have been no replies to this query, but it is a difficult one to offer information on. I think you have done most reasonable research and thank you for sharing your findings.

What I can say in hopes of augmenting your position this far, is that the badly degenerated cartouche on the blade might be from a number of possible makers as you have acknowledged. These names in the borders of oval cartouches were a convention known to have been used by bladesmiths in the Milan, Brescian regions of Italy in these times, the Picinino group beng the most familiar.
Norman, as you have noted, describes some of the makers with connections to this type marking, and again, as you note, the type #58 hilt is the closest to your form. These are of course general forms, and certain peculiarities arose with varied makers . The period in early 17th century seems correct.

To compound the dilemma of classifying to a certain maker, the oval cartouche idea was used (as noted) by a number of makers in these regions and times, also German makers in their fashion spuriously used names etc.

I think your rapier is as noted early 17th century and the blade probably indeed from a maker in these Italian regions, but exact attribution further difficult if not unlikely.

20th July 2023, 09:50 PM	#1
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 113	Rapier blade marking I've just acquired a rapier, first quarter of the C17th (ish). Hilt is AVB Norman type 58 (happy to be corrected) and the pommel matches the era / hilt type. Still has its original spiral wood grip under the broken wire. The blade has indecipherable letters and markings - so far - on the ricasso and this (picture 3) on one side of the blade. I've looked in the Wallace Collection guide and there are some contenders for circular marks with words around the centre but there's only what appears to be an E or L to go on. Anyone an ideas as to whose marking it might be? Attached Images Last edited by Triarii; 21st July 2023 at 08:51 AM.

16th August 2023, 11:52 AM	#2
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 113	I'm wondering if this mark - based on the limited number of marks we know - is Gastione Franchescho. Picture from Wallace Collection catalogue A602, but the mark on that is on the ricasso, not the blade, though I failed to photograph that one when last there. Does anyone have any photos of his mark on other swords? Attached Images

17th August 2023, 07:27 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	It is unfortunate that there have been no replies to this query, but it is a difficult one to offer information on. I think you have done most reasonable research and thank you for sharing your findings. What I can say in hopes of augmenting your position this far, is that the badly degenerated cartouche on the blade might be from a number of possible makers as you have acknowledged. These names in the borders of oval cartouches were a convention known to have been used by bladesmiths in the Milan, Brescian regions of Italy in these times, the Picinino group beng the most familiar. Norman, as you have noted, describes some of the makers with connections to this type marking, and again, as you note, the type #58 hilt is the closest to your form. These are of course general forms, and certain peculiarities arose with varied makers . The period in early 17th century seems correct. To compound the dilemma of classifying to a certain maker, the oval cartouche idea was used (as noted) by a number of makers in these regions and times, also German makers in their fashion spuriously used names etc. I think your rapier is as noted early 17th century and the blade probably indeed from a maker in these Italian regions, but exact attribution further difficult if not unlikely. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 17th August 2023 at 08:22 PM.