Sumpitan for sharing and discussion

Sajen · 29th November 2015, 02:03 PM

Have got some time ago a nice (imho) Dayak sumpitan. The blow pipe show a nice patination overall, it is 169 cm long and still have the scabbard for the spear point.
Would be of great interest for me to read your thoughts about this piece and get a possible age estimation. Thank you in advance.

VANDOO · 29th November 2015, 06:13 PM

IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD OLD EXAMPLE TO ME AND IS INTACT EVEN INCLUDING THE SCABBARD FOR THE SPEAR POINT. THE BLADE AND BLOWPIPE LOOKS OLDER THAN THE FIBER WRAP AND SCABBARD BUT EVEN THE NEWER FIBER LOOKS OLDER THAN WW2. SO I WOULD GUESS ITS BETWEEN 80 TO 100 YEARS OLD. A NICE INTACT EXAMPLE WITH GOOD PATINA.

Sajen · 29th November 2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD OLD EXAMPLE TO ME AND IS INTACT EVEN INCLUDING THE SCABBARD FOR THE SPEAR POINT. THE BLADE AND BLOWPIPE LOOKS OLDER THAN THE FIBER WRAP AND SCABBARD BUT EVEN THE NEWER FIBER LOOKS OLDER THAN WW2. SO I WOULD GUESS ITS BETWEEN 80 TO 100 YEARS OLD. A NICE INTACT EXAMPLE WITH GOOD PATINA.

Thank you Barry for your like usual good observations and your age guess.

Regards,
Detlef

asomotif · 29th November 2015, 10:26 PM

Hello Detlef,

the metal parts and the wood show a lot of age.
The rattan binding is very bright coloured so indeed appears to be more recent. But this rattan does show cracks that indicate some age.

The scabbard has a lot of patina, but it is more difficult to judge in this artificial light.

What materinal is the mouthpiece ? metal ? brass ?

Overal a nice piece. 80-100 years seems like a possibe age to me as well.

Best regards,
Willem

Sajen · 29th November 2015, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hello Detlef,

the metal parts and the wood show a lot of age.
The rattan binding is very bright coloured so indeed appears to be more recent. But this rattan does show cracks that indicate some age.

The scabbard has a lot of patina, but it is more difficult to judge in this artificial light.

What materinal is the mouthpiece ? metal ? brass ?

Overal a nice piece. 80-100 years seems like a possibe age to me as well.

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,

have hoped that you chime in since I know that you own some great sumpitans.

Thank you very much for your educated opinion.
The mouth piece is from brass and shows a good old patination.

Best regards,
Detlef

Maurice · 30th November 2015, 04:57 PM

Hello Detlef,

Nice to see a sumpitan with Original scabbard.
This is pretty rare, as most sumpitans I know have no scabbard.

I also have a sumpitan with scabbard, which I attached some photos for reference.

Kind regards,
Maurice

VANDOO · 30th November 2015, 07:25 PM

MAURICE THAT'S AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE WITH FANCY FIBER DESIGN BINDINGS AND A VERY NICE TRADITIONAL SPEAR BLADE AND SCABBARD. THIS SCABBARD WAS DESIGNED NOT ONLY TO COVER THE BLADE BUT THE HOLE IN THE END OF THE BLOWPIPE. THIS FEATURE WOULD BE VERY GOOD TO KEEP DIRT,SPIDERS OR BUGS FROM GETTING IN AND MESSING UP THE SMOOTH BORE OF THE BLOWPIPE. IT WOULD ALSO FIT MORE SNUGLY AS IT WOULD FIT OVER THE BLADE AND THE OTHER METAL TANG END AS WELL AS OVER THE BLOWPIPE END. I HAVE FOUND LEAVES STUFFED IN THE BLOWPIPE BORE AT BOTH ENDS ON AMAZON EXAMPLES THAT SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE. (AMAZON BLOWGUNS DON'T HAVE A SPEAR BLADE)

Sajen · 30th November 2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hello Detlef,

Nice to see a sumpitan with Original scabbard.
This is pretty rare, as most sumpitans I know have no scabbard.

I also have a sumpitan with scabbard, which I attached some photos for reference.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Hello Maurice,

thank you very much for sharing pictures of your nice sumpitan. Like Barry I am fond of the nice rattan design and the well carved scabbard which not only cover the hole but the iron notch as well. May I ask how long your piece is?

Best regards,
Detlef

asomotif · 30th November 2015, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

I also have a sumpitan with scabbard, which I attached some photos for reference.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Wow, I already forgot that this super sumpitan is part of your collection.
Thanks for sharing this unique piece.

Maurice · 1st December 2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Maurice,

thank you very much for sharing pictures of your nice sumpitan. Like Barry I am fond of the nice rattan design and the well carved scabbard which not only cover the hole but the iron notch as well. May I ask how long your piece is?

Best regards,
Detlef

The carving of the scabbard tells me that the blowpipe most likely is from the Kutai area (east Borneo). Therefore I decided to keep this one, as this is one of my most favorite area's.

The iron notch isn't iron but silver instead.
My blowpipe (ofcourse I mean the sumpitan) is 241 cm long.

Kind regards
Maurice

Maurice · 1st December 2015, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Wow, I already forgot that this super sumpitan is part of your collection.
Thanks for sharing this unique piece.

Thank you Willem,
You have beautifull examples as well!

Kind regards,
Maurice

Sajen · 18th March 2018, 04:51 PM

Two more sumpitan entered the collection, one has a notch from wood but the important part is broken, both are longer as the first example and both spear points show pitting from corrosion which I have removed, at least the active corrosion. All comments are very welcome.

Ian · 19th March 2018, 07:29 PM

Nice examples Detlef. Any ideas about how old these are.

Ian

Treeslicer · 19th March 2018, 07:54 PM

Wow! Blowguns with bayonets. Pretty work, too. Thanks for posting these, y'all.

Ian · 19th March 2018, 09:35 PM

Quote:

... one has a notch from wood but the important part is broken ...

I've found this on other examples. It seems that the "sight" is particularly vulnerable to damage--perhaps when the sumpitan is used like a spear to finish off a wounded animal.

Sajen · 20th March 2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Nice examples Detlef. Any ideas about how old these are.

Hi Ian,

thank you!

I only can guess.

Both spear points seems to have a good age. The one with the bright binding could has a renewed binding but shows already the typical cracks in the rotan which suggest that it is old/antique. The wood from the blow pipe shows also a good patination so I think first half of the 20th century with a maybe older spear point.
The other one shows an overall "smoke" patination from open fire, difficult to guess but could be a little bit older.
I hope Willem or Maurice will comment since I think they will be able to tell us more.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 20th March 2018, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I've found this on other examples. It seems that the "sight" is particularly vulnerable to damage--perhaps when the sumpitan is used like a spear to finish off a wounded animal.

Possible but frankly said it's the first one I've seen with wooden "sight"/notch.

Sajen · 20th March 2018, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeslicer

Wow! Blowguns with bayonets. Pretty work, too. Thanks for posting these, y'all.

Thank you! Sumpitans have always a spear point.

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 20th March 2018, 09:52 PM

Beautiful pieces Detlef and wonderful new additions to your ever growing collection. One of these days I hope to find one for my own collection along with the dart container and hopefully darts as well.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 21st March 2018, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Possible but frankly said it's the first one I've seen with wooden "sight"/notch.

The "notch" seems fairly common in my limited experience. I remember a few examples that had such a structure but most were broken if I recall correctly. If these are fragile, then they may be lost over time which could account for not seeing them very often.

Posted below are pictures from the web which show such a structure on what appear to be old and more recent examples.

Ian.

Ian · 21st March 2018, 03:36 PM

And three more without that structure, and never seem to have had it.

Ian.

.

Ian · 21st March 2018, 03:44 PM

Some more variations.

Ian.

.

Sajen · 21st March 2018, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Beautiful pieces Detlef and wonderful new additions to your ever growing collection. One of these days I hope to find one for my own collection along with the dart container and hopefully darts as well.

Thank you Robert,

sadly I've sold my very nice tolor some years ago.

See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...0&postcount=33

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 21st March 2018, 07:28 PM

Hi Ian,
yes, the notch is fairly common. What I want to say was that a notch from wood is not common, never seen one from wood before. Sumpitans complete without notch I've seen before.
Thank you for posting all this interesting examples.

Regards,
Detlef

colin henshaw · 21st March 2018, 07:32 PM

A fine example Detlef, congratulations. The ones I see around usually don't have the sheath and the condition not normally so good as yours.

Regards
Colin

Sajen · 22nd March 2018, 12:52 AM

Thank you Colin!

29th November 2015, 02:03 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Sumpitan for sharing and discussion Have got some time ago a nice (imho) Dayak sumpitan. The blow pipe show a nice patination overall, it is 169 cm long and still have the scabbard for the spear point. Would be of great interest for me to read your thoughts about this piece and get a possible age estimation. Thank you in advance. Attached Images

30th November 2015, 04:57 PM	#6
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Hello Detlef, Nice to see a sumpitan with Original scabbard. This is pretty rare, as most sumpitans I know have no scabbard. I also have a sumpitan with scabbard, which I attached some photos for reference. Kind regards, Maurice Attached Images

18th March 2018, 04:51 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Two more sumpitan entered the collection, one has a notch from wood but the important part is broken, both are longer as the first example and both spear points show pitting from corrosion which I have removed, at least the active corrosion. All comments are very welcome. Attached Images

21st March 2018, 03:36 PM	#21
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	And three more without that structure, and never seem to have had it. Ian. . Attached Images

21st March 2018, 03:44 PM	#22
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Some more variations. Ian. . Attached Images

29th November 2015, 06:13 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD OLD EXAMPLE TO ME AND IS INTACT EVEN INCLUDING THE SCABBARD FOR THE SPEAR POINT. THE BLADE AND BLOWPIPE LOOKS OLDER THAN THE FIBER WRAP AND SCABBARD BUT EVEN THE NEWER FIBER LOOKS OLDER THAN WW2. SO I WOULD GUESS ITS BETWEEN 80 TO 100 YEARS OLD. A NICE INTACT EXAMPLE WITH GOOD PATINA.

29th November 2015, 10:26 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Detlef, the metal parts and the wood show a lot of age. The rattan binding is very bright coloured so indeed appears to be more recent. But this rattan does show cracks that indicate some age. The scabbard has a lot of patina, but it is more difficult to judge in this artificial light. What materinal is the mouthpiece ? metal ? brass ? Overal a nice piece. 80-100 years seems like a possibe age to me as well. Best regards, Willem

30th November 2015, 07:25 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MAURICE THAT'S AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE WITH FANCY FIBER DESIGN BINDINGS AND A VERY NICE TRADITIONAL SPEAR BLADE AND SCABBARD. THIS SCABBARD WAS DESIGNED NOT ONLY TO COVER THE BLADE BUT THE HOLE IN THE END OF THE BLOWPIPE. THIS FEATURE WOULD BE VERY GOOD TO KEEP DIRT,SPIDERS OR BUGS FROM GETTING IN AND MESSING UP THE SMOOTH BORE OF THE BLOWPIPE. IT WOULD ALSO FIT MORE SNUGLY AS IT WOULD FIT OVER THE BLADE AND THE OTHER METAL TANG END AS WELL AS OVER THE BLOWPIPE END. I HAVE FOUND LEAVES STUFFED IN THE BLOWPIPE BORE AT BOTH ENDS ON AMAZON EXAMPLES THAT SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE. (AMAZON BLOWGUNS DON'T HAVE A SPEAR BLADE)

19th March 2018, 07:29 PM	#13
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Nice examples Detlef. Any ideas about how old these are. Ian

19th March 2018, 07:54 PM	#14
Treeslicer Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 65	Wow! Blowguns with bayonets. Pretty work, too. Thanks for posting these, y'all.

20th March 2018, 09:52 PM	#19
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Beautiful pieces Detlef and wonderful new additions to your ever growing collection. One of these days I hope to find one for my own collection along with the dart container and hopefully darts as well. Best, Robert

21st March 2018, 07:28 PM	#24
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hi Ian, yes, the notch is fairly common. What I want to say was that a notch from wood is not common, never seen one from wood before. Sumpitans complete without notch I've seen before. Thank you for posting all this interesting examples. Regards, Detlef

21st March 2018, 07:32 PM	#25
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	A fine example Detlef, congratulations. The ones I see around usually don't have the sheath and the condition not normally so good as yours. Regards Colin

22nd March 2018, 12:52 AM	#26
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Thank you Colin!