Dagger ??

[ksbhati]

Hi ! Comments on this Dagger would be appreciated. Thanks !!

[Tim Simmons]

Nice handle. I like the way the petal form is defined so confidently with one cut.

[katana]

Hi ksbhati,
nice dagger, could you post some more pictures of the blade .... there seems to be a wootz pattern......hard to tell from the one picture. The blade thickness at the tip, strongly suggests armour piercing capabillities.

Regards David

[ksbhati]

Hi ! Yes the blade is wootz and yes the blade has a Armour Piercing tip. I was wondering if anyone here could help with the translation of the inscription. Also, the style of engraving (very light) with traces of gold inlay is something I have not seen before....specially the web like pattern of the inlay (with all traces of gold gone) all around the inscriptions is a first. Has anyone seen decoration like this before...??

[Gonzalo G]

I don´t know much of this weapons, but, do you call "daggers" to the weapons with only one edge blades? It could be a khanjar, but the form of the blade fits better in the recurved type of peshkabz found in India and illustrated by E. Jaiwant in "Arms and Armour. Traditional weapons of India", which are more "triangular" and without any parallel profile lines in the whole blade. But the form of the hilt is more common in khanjars than in peshkabz, the late more usual in a full tang type mounted with scales and rivets in this recurved type. The inscriptions point to a muslim origin. I can be mistaken, but this weapons could be originated in north India or Iran. Somehow the decoration and inscriptions reminds me an irani, or a copy of an irani, style of decoration. Please don´t take too seriously my opinion, as I´m only an amateur.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ksbhati

I was wondering if anyone here could help with the translation of the inscription.

Hi ksbhati

let us try to translate

- first pic ;
inscription
Milk Han'na Han'na is the owner

-second pic ;
inscription from The Holy Qur'an ;
-/- Al-fath (The victory) verse 1 chapter XLVIII
meaning ;
Surely We have given to you a clear victory

no more

à +

Dom

[ksbhati]

Thank you for the translation Dom. Is that a complete translation or portions translated...??

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

I don´t know much of this weapons, but, do you call "daggers" to the weapons with only one edge blades? It could be a khanjar, but the form of the blade fits better in the recurved type of peshkabz found in India and illustrated by E. Jaiwant in "Arms and Armour. Traditional weapons of India", which are more "triangular" and without any parallel profile lines in the whole blade. But the form of the hilt is more common in khanjars than in peshkabz, the late more usual in a full tang type mounted with scales and rivets in this recurved type. The inscriptions point to a muslim origin. I can be mistaken, but this weapons could be originated in north India or Iran. Somehow the decoration and inscriptions reminds me an irani, or a copy of an irani, style of decoration. Please don´t take too seriously my opinion, as I´m only an amateur.

You're doing great for an 'amateur' Gonzalo! Stepping forward with well thought out observations and referenced support clearly notes that you have advanced from that category though....now you're a student of arms like the rest of us The weapons of N.India were greatly influenced by the arms of Persia, and sometimes difficult to distinguish differences. I am under the impression that recurved blade is characteristic of pesh kabz. The hilt is of khanjhar form ,and possibly jade?

All the best,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

It looks like jade, Jim....beautiful piece. Thank you very much for your kind comments.
Cheers

Gonzalo

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ksbhati

Is that a complete translation or portions translated...??

YES ...
fully translation
nothing more, or less

by curiosity, ... you was awaiting for what ??

à +

Dom

[ksbhati]

Thanks ! just wanted a confirmation if that was the full translation. Someone not so well versed tried to translate this portion here and according to him it read "Mallika..." something. Mallika would ordinarily mean queen or empress in Urdu. Hence I was wondering.

I guess these are the subtle differences in Urdu and Persian.

Thanks

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ksbhati

Thanks ! just wanted a confirmation if that was the full translation. Someone not so well versed tried to translate this portion here and according to him it read "Mallika..." something. Mallika would ordinarily mean queen or empress in Urdu. Hence I was wondering.

I guess these are the subtle differences in Urdu and Persian.

Thanks

the permanent problem between ;
- form
- spirit
in translation

it's true that it's possible to read "malik(a)" who has as signification
- Queen (one letter missing at the end)
- owner for
- property of
it's the general sense (spirit) of the sentence who determine the translation (form)

now about differences between Arabic, Urdu, Farsi,
it's like if you want to put in parallele French, German, English .... good luck

but, ask for yourself if really speaking a Queen, could bear a dagger piercing armour ???
if we apply the "spirit" to the translation, the sense of "property" "owning" seem more pertinent
specialy, as the name is masculin

à +

Dom