Kindjal

Aurangzeb · 10th January 2006, 04:32 AM

Hello All!

I just bought this nice kindjal off of Therion but he has not updated his website yet unfotunatly... He says it is from Kazakhstan but I never saw a Kazakh kindjal, I personally think it is from the Chechyna-Dagestan regieon. I will admit that I do not know much about kindjals, so someone please help me out!

Mark...
http://www.therionarms.com/antiques/...arms_c465.html

Aurangzeb · 12th January 2006, 12:26 AM

Hello?

Andrew · 12th January 2006, 02:20 AM

Mark, Hal posts here as "Therion". Have you sent him a link to this thread? Did he give you any provenance for his Kazakh attribution?

Nice knife, btw.

Aurangzeb · 14th January 2006, 04:30 AM

Hello Andrew!

Upon your suggestion I have sent Hal a link to this thread. Thanks for the comment, I have to spend the money I got for christmas!

In my opinion plane weapons sometimes are more appealing than overly decorated ones.

Mark...

Aurangzeb · 19th January 2006, 12:58 AM

Hello All!

Just got it today, will post pictures soon.

Mark...

Aurangzeb · 21st January 2006, 01:34 AM

Greetings Everyone !

Here are the promised pictures of my Kindjal. Any comments would be most welcomed as always !

Thanks in advance for your opinions !

Mark.. a.k.a. - 'Aurangzeb'

Aurangzeb · 21st January 2006, 04:29 PM

No more replys, this is odd?

Rivkin · 22nd January 2006, 04:15 PM

Interesting guy. The problem with Therion's identification is that afaik Kuban does not come close to Kazakhstan, and therefore this kindjal simply can't be from "Kuban region of Kazakhstan". On the other hand I don't think it is Chechen or even southern Caucasian. The hilt is quite strange and does not fit into usual caucasian patterns. I would point to something to the south - Iran, may be the domain of Shirvan-Shah.

There is some brown rust that may be needs cleaning. There is also some very interesting pattern on the metal. I don't specialize in patterns, which is the world on its own, but it well may be that this guy is differentially heat treated or something else. On the other hand I don't know if it is a good thing to clean it with FeCl.

ariel · 22nd January 2006, 05:23 PM

I think it is a hodge-podge of unrelated parts, including the kitchen sink. The Brits would call it "dog's breakfast".The blade is very primitive, almost African in it's design and execution. I also think that the "pattern" is just a consequence of overeager sand-blasting of a deeply rusted and pockmarked blade, to the point that that even the contour of the blade got melted away. The handle is new and careless: some of the blade(sharpened part!) protrudes outside the lower part. One would cut himself more with this weapon than any opponent.
As to Kazakh.... Kazakhs are Turkic people of Central Asia ; they never wore kindjals. This is a classic mistake of homophone names: Kazak (spelled Cossack in English) and Kazakh. And, of course, Rivkin is correct: Kuban has no relation to Kazakhstan.
In short, I am sorry to say it, but this piece does not inspire much confidence. Perhaps, this was the reason nobody wanted to be the bearer of bad news. On the other hand, the whole purpose of this Forum is to be honest and to separate real weapons from the chaff.

Rick · 22nd January 2006, 07:17 PM

This is also a good example of the importance , value and worth of research and self education leading to one being an astute collector .

Better one good serviceable authentic example than a dozen imitations .

Aurangzeb · 22nd January 2006, 11:14 PM

Hello all!

About the blade part that protrudes, it is not that large on that spot or sharp and when holding it it is quite comforatable. I do not understand why the handle is careless? You probably are right about the pattern. It seems like the parts have been toghter for a while, and the blade is sturdy and well made. If it's a hodge-podge it's a good hodge-podge in my opinion. Do you think this was assembled in its native land as a person trying to get a little more use out of a old blade? I just think it's a hevaly abused blade. Like my Syrian jambiya witch is even more corroded.

Mark...

Aurangzeb · 29th January 2006, 12:21 AM

This is Similer to what I have but larger.

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=269

Mark...

Alan62 · 29th January 2006, 05:08 AM

As Long as we are posting pics of Kindjals
I am still trying to translate the writing on this one

10th January 2006, 04:32 AM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Kindjal Hello All! I just bought this nice kindjal off of Therion but he has not updated his website yet unfotunatly... He says it is from Kazakhstan but I never saw a Kazakh kindjal, I personally think it is from the Chechyna-Dagestan regieon. I will admit that I do not know much about kindjals, so someone please help me out! Mark... http://www.therionarms.com/antiques/...arms_c465.html

21st January 2006, 01:34 AM	#6
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Greetings Everyone ! Here are the promised pictures of my Kindjal. Any comments would be most welcomed as always ! Thanks in advance for your opinions ! Mark.. a.k.a. - 'Aurangzeb' Attached Images

22nd January 2006, 07:17 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Homework This is also a good example of the importance , value and worth of research and self education leading to one being an astute collector . Better one good serviceable authentic example than a dozen imitations .

22nd January 2006, 11:14 PM	#11
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello all! About the blade part that protrudes, it is not that large on that spot or sharp and when holding it it is quite comforatable. I do not understand why the handle is careless? You probably are right about the pattern. It seems like the parts have been toghter for a while, and the blade is sturdy and well made. If it's a hodge-podge it's a good hodge-podge in my opinion. Do you think this was assembled in its native land as a person trying to get a little more use out of a old blade? I just think it's a hevaly abused blade. Like my Syrian jambiya witch is even more corroded. Mark... Last edited by Aurangzeb; 22nd January 2006 at 11:59 PM.

12th January 2006, 12:26 AM	#2
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello?

12th January 2006, 02:20 AM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Mark, Hal posts here as "Therion". Have you sent him a link to this thread? Did he give you any provenance for his Kazakh attribution? Nice knife, btw.

14th January 2006, 04:30 AM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello Andrew! Upon your suggestion I have sent Hal a link to this thread. Thanks for the comment, I have to spend the money I got for christmas! In my opinion plane weapons sometimes are more appealing than overly decorated ones. Mark...

19th January 2006, 12:58 AM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello All! Just got it today, will post pictures soon. Mark...

21st January 2006, 04:29 PM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	No more replys, this is odd?

22nd January 2006, 04:15 PM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Interesting guy. The problem with Therion's identification is that afaik Kuban does not come close to Kazakhstan, and therefore this kindjal simply can't be from "Kuban region of Kazakhstan". On the other hand I don't think it is Chechen or even southern Caucasian. The hilt is quite strange and does not fit into usual caucasian patterns. I would point to something to the south - Iran, may be the domain of Shirvan-Shah. There is some brown rust that may be needs cleaning. There is also some very interesting pattern on the metal. I don't specialize in patterns, which is the world on its own, but it well may be that this guy is differentially heat treated or something else. On the other hand I don't know if it is a good thing to clean it with FeCl.

22nd January 2006, 05:23 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think it is a hodge-podge of unrelated parts, including the kitchen sink. The Brits would call it "dog's breakfast".The blade is very primitive, almost African in it's design and execution. I also think that the "pattern" is just a consequence of overeager sand-blasting of a deeply rusted and pockmarked blade, to the point that that even the contour of the blade got melted away. The handle is new and careless: some of the blade(sharpened part!) protrudes outside the lower part. One would cut himself more with this weapon than any opponent. As to Kazakh.... Kazakhs are Turkic people of Central Asia ; they never wore kindjals. This is a classic mistake of homophone names: Kazak (spelled Cossack in English) and Kazakh. And, of course, Rivkin is correct: Kuban has no relation to Kazakhstan. In short, I am sorry to say it, but this piece does not inspire much confidence. Perhaps, this was the reason nobody wanted to be the bearer of bad news. On the other hand, the whole purpose of this Forum is to be honest and to separate real weapons from the chaff.

29th January 2006, 12:21 AM	#12
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	This is Similer to what I have but larger. http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=269 Mark...

29th January 2006, 05:08 AM	#13
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	As Long as we are posting pics of Kindjals I am still trying to translate the writing on this one