Balinese keris advice

JeffS · 24th October 2022, 02:09 PM

This is a new purchase but it will be several weeks before I get my hands on it. However, I'm impatient and hope to get advice/comments so I can consider options to dress it. I've (poorly) Photoshop'd the image below from the sellers photos which had watermarks. To my eye, this is a classic Bali keris with decent execution, likely late 19C or early 20C based on other examples on this forum. It looks quite serviceable as a weapon with a 45cm blade. I'm liking the warangka, a bit worn with character. I'm uncertain on the age/quality of the bebondolan(?) style hilt. I would like to think it is something a Balinese warrior might carry. Am I way off base? If not, I would love to hear suggestions for dressing it (selut, mendak, hilt) to match this period and function.

David · 24th October 2022, 06:38 PM

Looks like a nice example of a late 19th century Bali keris. The hilt form here is called Cekah Solas. You can find more information on these hilts here:
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...7827#post87827
I would not say you are necessarily off-base on your assumption. I have heard that such hilts were favoured for fighting and this is the kind of basic, unadorned dress you might expect for a soldier's keris i think.

A. G. Maisey · 24th October 2022, 09:20 PM

If what I think I can see in the photos is correct, this is a very, very good keris.

The blade style is classic, the garap appears to be detailed and neat, the forge work looks to be better than competent.

The dress is classic.

Old keris of this style of keris in Bali itself have been highly sought after for some years, especially so since the monetary crisis of the late 20th century.

I would not be so inclined to think in terms of Balinese warriors, out of context this can be a pretty misleading thought, similarly, in the Balinese context the keris should not thought of just in weapon terms.

It seems that you might be considering changing the dress, Jeff?

This could be one of the greatest errors in your collecting life if you do.

The only thing I might suggest is the addition of an old wewer (hilt ring), but undamaged old ones are very difficult to obtain.

This keris is perfect & beautiful exactly as it is.

JeffS · 25th October 2022, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If what I think I can see in the photos is correct, this is a very, very good keris.

The blade style is classic, the garap appears to be detailed and neat, the forge work looks to be better than competent.

The dress is classic.

Old keris of this style of keris in Bali itself have been highly sought after for some years, especially so since the monetary crisis of the late 20th century.

I would not be so inclined to think in terms of Balinese warriors, out of context this can be a pretty misleading thought, similarly, in the Balinese context the keris should not thought of just in weapon terms.

It seems that you might be considering changing the dress, Jeff?

This could be one of the greatest errors in your collecting life if you do.

The only thing I might suggest is the addition of an old wewer (hilt ring), but undamaged old ones are very difficult to obtain.

This keris is perfect & beautiful exactly as it is.

Wow, I have gotten very lucky. Thank you for the advice. Best leave this at that. I would, however, be very interested to hear more regarding Balinese warriors and their use of keris as weapons within the proper context and nuance you mention. I am thinking of older photos with rough looking armed men with a large keris carried on the back. I know I've seen threads with lively keris/weapon discussions. I will go back and read on this and start a new thread if the specific Balinese context is not already well traveled ground here.

David · 25th October 2022, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Wow, I have gotten very lucky. Thank you for the advice. Best leave this at that. I would, however, be very interested to hear more regarding Balinese warriors and their use of keris as weapons within the proper context and nuance you mention. I am thinking of older photos with rough looking armed men with a large keris carried on the back. I know I've seen threads with lively keris/weapon discussions. I will go back and read on this and start a new thread if the specific Balinese context is not already well traveled ground here.

I completely agree with Alan that it would be misleading to consider the Bali keris only in terms of weaponry alone. While it is my understanding that the keris was indeed employed as a weapon in Bali, its place within that culture is so much larger than that and i don't think the keris was ever considered a prime weapon of war even if it was fought with at times.
I also agree with Alan that you should not be thinking about changing anything about this classic keris dress. The sheath, though worn, looks to be in pretty good condition, made from select and desirable timoho pelet wood, as is the Cekah Solas hilt. While perhaps not exactly rare, old examples of these hilts are at least less common and it suits this keris quite well. As Alan mentioned, the only thing i would consider changing about this ensemble would be to add a wewer/uwer (hilt ring) to it. While old, undamaged uwer may indeed be more difficult to find, if you look around some you can probably find a fairly decent new one that might fit the bill.I used to see these quite often on eBay.
When you think about images of "rough looking armed men" carrying keris you may well be thinking about this image. You will note that the gentleman on the right carries a keris at his back and the hilt on his keris is indeed a the Cekah Solas form. This image presents these gentlemen as warriors, but it is obviously a set-up photo so it's impossible to say for sure how much of this image was orchestrated by the photographer for effect. But as i mentioned before, it is my understanding that these Cekah Solas hilts were favoured by warriors due to their grip. When i went searching for where i had seen this before it does seem to be information that was suggested by Lalu Djelenga. Still, i believe it is important to approach keris form a position that focusses on far more than martial applications.

A. G. Maisey · 25th October 2022, 10:09 PM

Yes, these are indeed pretty scary looking men, but we can all look pretty scary when when we want to. As you say David, a posed photograph. If we were to have met these men in other than this photo pose, I believe we would have found them to be as friendly and as personable as we now find their present day descendants to be.

In my experience and personal relationships with Balinese people, which stretches over more than 50 years, and speaking in general terms, I can find no traces of a warrior society in Bali.

Yeah, sure, we have a K'satriya caste, the "knights" within the societal system, but even in past times, when these "knights" had a duty to protect their ruler and their fellow members of society, it seems to me that the Balinese idea of combat was more in the nature of theatre, rather than the ideas surrounding combat that we find in many societies in other parts of the world, for example in European societies.

Those of us who have read, or studied, this work:-

Visible and Invisible Realms-Margaret J.Wiener
ISBN 0-226-88582-8/1,The University of Chicago Press

have consistently recommended it as a starting point to understand the keris in Bali.

The keris in all societies where it is found as a cultural artefact does not stand independent of the society, it is essential to understand the society before one can understand the keris.

24th October 2022, 02:09 PM	#1
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 345	Balinese keris advice This is a new purchase but it will be several weeks before I get my hands on it. However, I'm impatient and hope to get advice/comments so I can consider options to dress it. I've (poorly) Photoshop'd the image below from the sellers photos which had watermarks. To my eye, this is a classic Bali keris with decent execution, likely late 19C or early 20C based on other examples on this forum. It looks quite serviceable as a weapon with a 45cm blade. I'm liking the warangka, a bit worn with character. I'm uncertain on the age/quality of the bebondolan(?) style hilt. I would like to think it is something a Balinese warrior might carry. Am I way off base? If not, I would love to hear suggestions for dressing it (selut, mendak, hilt) to match this period and function. Attached Images Last edited by JeffS; 24th October 2022 at 03:05 PM. Reason: fixed picture

24th October 2022, 06:38 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Looks like a nice example of a late 19th century Bali keris. The hilt form here is called Cekah Solas. You can find more information on these hilts here: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...7827#post87827 I would not say you are necessarily off-base on your assumption. I have heard that such hilts were favoured for fighting and this is the kind of basic, unadorned dress you might expect for a soldier's keris i think.

24th October 2022, 09:20 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	If what I think I can see in the photos is correct, this is a very, very good keris. The blade style is classic, the garap appears to be detailed and neat, the forge work looks to be better than competent. The dress is classic. Old keris of this style of keris in Bali itself have been highly sought after for some years, especially so since the monetary crisis of the late 20th century. I would not be so inclined to think in terms of Balinese warriors, out of context this can be a pretty misleading thought, similarly, in the Balinese context the keris should not thought of just in weapon terms. It seems that you might be considering changing the dress, Jeff? This could be one of the greatest errors in your collecting life if you do. The only thing I might suggest is the addition of an old wewer (hilt ring), but undamaged old ones are very difficult to obtain. This keris is perfect & beautiful exactly as it is.

25th October 2022, 10:09 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Yes, these are indeed pretty scary looking men, but we can all look pretty scary when when we want to. As you say David, a posed photograph. If we were to have met these men in other than this photo pose, I believe we would have found them to be as friendly and as personable as we now find their present day descendants to be. In my experience and personal relationships with Balinese people, which stretches over more than 50 years, and speaking in general terms, I can find no traces of a warrior society in Bali. Yeah, sure, we have a K'satriya caste, the "knights" within the societal system, but even in past times, when these "knights" had a duty to protect their ruler and their fellow members of society, it seems to me that the Balinese idea of combat was more in the nature of theatre, rather than the ideas surrounding combat that we find in many societies in other parts of the world, for example in European societies. Those of us who have read, or studied, this work:- Visible and Invisible Realms-Margaret J.Wiener ISBN 0-226-88582-8/1,The University of Chicago Press have consistently recommended it as a starting point to understand the keris in Bali. The keris in all societies where it is found as a cultural artefact does not stand independent of the society, it is essential to understand the society before one can understand the keris.