Gungongs! A big newer one and a small older one

[Rafngard]

Hello All,

These two gunongs have recently come to live with one. Both for prices low enough that they should be criminal. One has previously been seen in a family photo, but I thought it deserves a bit more attention.

The first is a monster of a gunong. 17" inches total, 12 of those the blade alone. The size and profile reminds me a bit of a Bugis Keris (some influence maybe?).
The guard is aluminium. The ferrule is (perhaps silver, but more likely) aluminium and copper. The blade has pointy waves, and after a quick attempt at a lime juice etch, shows what I think might be signs of lamination. Or not. I'm not sure. Okir is present. Sadly, the scabbard is long gone.

The handle is weird, I don't know of any others of similar construction (though admittedly, I don't know much, so that's not saying much). It appears to be made of a central strip of wood (darkened, perhaps from sweat, on the inside of the pistol grip) and two plates of what I assume is carabao horn attached with aluminum nails. The plates are starting to separate from the wood.

If I had to guess, I think it's something like WWII era or latter? mostly based on the size and the aluminum. I think it might be maranao, but that's just a guess.

The second is smaller, and I believe, older. It resembles #7 in Krieger's plate 13. (found here, http://www.vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html). I suspect it dates to the late 19th, or perhaps early 20th century.

The handle is wood of some sort. The simple ferrule is brass, guard is copper. The blade is waved. I gave it a quick vinegar etch and I think I see signs of lamination, but I think I'd do well to give it a decent polish before I try next time. The scabbard is also long gone.

So, what do you think? Did I get it right, or totally wrong?
I'm happy to hear any and all opinions, corrections, etc.

Have fun,
Leif

[Rafngard]

Pics of the older one, and 2 new family photos. I might be addicted.

[David]

Well, i'd say your first one is a far bit newer than WWII. Probably more likely the 1980s or so. I could be wrong, but the hilt construction looks like it might be borrowed from more northern, non-Moro areas of the Philippines. I'm not sure the bands on the hilt are aluminum, but probably not silver given the quality of the rest of the piece. Perhaps some other kind of what metal. The guard certainly looks aluminum though. I doubt you'll find lamination in this, but you never know.
You seem pretty right on with the second older piece. More my kind of gunong. Very likely a laminated construction.

[Battara]

I'm with David.

The big one has all aluminum mounts with some copper. Yes those slabs are horn. And yes this is a late 20th century (1980s -1990s?) piece. I would be quite surprised if it had lamination.

The second one is the more valuable one since it is much older, perhaps by nearly a century. This one should have laminations in it.

I wish Federico's site was still up. It had all of this information on it.

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i'd say your first one is a far bit newer than WWII. Probably more likely the 1980s or so. I could be wrong, but the hilt construction looks like it might be borrowed from more northern, non-Moro areas of the Philippines.

This would not even remotely surprise me. I thought it might be a little older based on how the horn plates were separating, but like I said, I don't know that much. I have a hard time distinguishing anything WWII or newer.

Originally Posted by David

You seem pretty right on with the second older piece. More my kind of gunong. Very likely a laminated construction.

Hey, I got something right at least?
Yeah, I really like this one.

Thanks for your comments.
Leif

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by Battara

The second one is the more valuable one since it is much older, perhaps by nearly a century. This one should have laminations in it.

So you're thinking more late 19th century, rather than early 20th for this one?

Originally Posted by Battara

I wish Federico's site was still up. It had all of this information on it.

Oh, wow. His site must be only recently down. I've read his bit on gunongs in at least the last year. I wish he was still active. I've read a ton of his old posts.

Have fun,
Leif

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

So you're thinking more late 19th century, rather than early 20th for this one?

Probably.

Originally Posted by Rafngard

Oh, wow. His site must be only recently down. I've read his bit on gunongs in at least the last year. I wish he was still active. I've read a ton of his old posts.

You and me both. However, I don't think he collects anymore.