Unusual Kirach For Discussion

[Rick]

First Measurements :

Hilt from langet to spike 7"

Overall length 32"

Blade length in a straight line 26"

Length of sharpened back edge in a straight line 19 1/4"

Length of front edge in a sraight line 23 7/8"

Width of blade at base 1 7/8"

Thickness at same 1/4"

Thickness at midpoint of blade 1/8"

Width at mid point 1 1/2"

Thickness of armor piercing point 1/4"

Length of armor piercing point 3 1/2"

Flex of blade 1/2"

Blade construction laminate forged .

Now for the pictures :

[Rick]

Hilt shot and construction detail .

Weight without scabbard 2.03 pounds .

Have at it !

[Jens Nordlunde]

Rick, you have an unusual kirach, the width if the blade, the very long false edge, with a thick spine of only about 8 inch, it would normally be about 14 inches longer, the reinforced tip is also unusual, although you see it now and again, the marks on the blade are seen before, but where they have been put, gives me a feeling that the meaning is something else than decorative – only I don’t know what it is. The tulwar/basket hilt is seen, but not very often, and I think they stopped using these hilts somewhere around early 19th century. The flower on top of the disc, and the form of the hilt points towards the Sikhs although the feared Maratha warriors in Deccan mostly used these swords; they most probably spread to other areas too. All in all a real fighting sword and a rare kirach, congratulation.

[Andrew]

This sword is extraordinary, Rick. Thanks for sharing it with us.

My experience with these weapons does not even approach Jens', but this also strikes me as rare and unusual. The tip is particularly interesting, and not something I've seen on a blade this long. A fearsome weapon!

[Jim McDougall]

Andrew,
These markings of what appears to be a sunburst seem very much like similar markings it seems I recall seen on some Cham weapons, or of SEA provenance. While reviewing notes here to see if I can add anything that might associate with anything Indian or European, I am wondering if you, Mark or Ian have similar markings catalogued.

This really is a magnificent and unusual kirach Rick !! Even more so with its clear transitional character that really embodies the diffusion of these weapon forms in India. I agree with Jens that there seem to be quite possible Sikh associations here, and more research will hopefully support that. It has always been interesting that the sacred sword of the Sikhs was of course the khanda, with Hindu baskethilt, while the sword of choice used by them in combat was typically the tulwar. Here we have a hybrid of both. Fascinating!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Ferguson]

Rick,
That is a truly magnificent sword. As a newbie, I have no information, but I love it! Looks like it has a very nice damascus pattern. Thanks for sharing this wonderful piece.

Steve Ferguson

[Jens Nordlunde]

It is true; the reinforced tip is not seen often. I only have one blade with such a tip – see the picture, and I the former Figiel collection there was a straight chevron blade with such a tip.

Also, on a lot of the kirach’s you see, the blade bend less than this one towards the tip. All in all, this does not point towards, that the owner was one to hide behind the elephants when the battle had started.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I forgot to mention, but many may know it, that especially after the Sepoy mutiny, the English collected thousands and thousands of all kinds of weapons, and the penalty for hiding the weapons was very hard. Some weapons went to museums, but it was few, as I understand it, most of them were cut to pieces and melted down, and some of the steel was used for bridges for roads and railway. Few were allowed to keep their weapons, the Raja’s and Maharaja’s who had helped the English of course, but in many cases the authors speak about their personal weapons which sounds as if their armouries were emptied – and we know that some of them were, few weapons were picked up by ‘collectors’ and the rest of the weapons were sold as old iron.

This of course means, that weapons we to day consider being rare as a type, not necessarily were as rare at the time they were in use.

[Conogre]

Perhaps a dumb question, but Rick, is there any chance that the hilt on your wonderful kirach was at one time removed and then accidently put back on backwards?
The basket hilt seems entirely innapropriate compared th the sharpened side of the blade and almost as if it would be near impossible to use effectively.
Maybe it's just me, but the anomaly jumped right out at me with the first glance.
Mike

[tom hyle]

The primary cutting edge is the inside of the curve.
Another beauty.
Note the krislikeness/pseudo-kris-pedanglikeness

[tom hyle]

Sometmes swords, especially shortswords, are used "edge up" though. This is seen In both Japanese and N American traditional fighting, for instance; it is a style often recommended for its thrusting (with the blade cut up thru the body after penetration, ideally to the abdominal cavity, with the blade being dragged up to penetrate the diaphragm, ideally ideally, the tip is then angled up into the heart and/or lungs (elephants, you are not alone). This was popularly taught in N America in C 19, and traditionally (maybe still, but I don't know) the penalties were heavier for edge-up criminal stabbings in Japan. I am also intrigued by knucklebowed swords in European art, some of it old, depicted (usually in the sheath, dang it!) with forward-curved blades, when I don't see sabre-hilted yatagans (in Europe; just saw a couple from India; call 'em sossun patta if you want)?....this is seen more in art for children; are children's artists more distant from real violence/weapons? Could it be a deliberate absurdity meant to somehow Bowlderize the prince's sword at the grand ball (etc.), and that like the fox-sized horse literary situation Stephen Gould told us of, came to be the standard?.............dunno; one of those odd strands hanging from the tattered tapestry of world cutlery......

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Conogre

Perhaps a dumb question, but Rick, is there any chance that the hilt on your wonderful kirach was at one time removed and then accidently put back on backwards?
The basket hilt seems entirely innapropriate compared th the sharpened side of the blade and almost as if it would be near impossible to use effectively.
Maybe it's just me, but the anomaly jumped right out at me with the first glance.
Mike

Hi Mike , this is the original configuration of hilt to blade . As Tom stated the primary cutting edge is the concave one even though the back (convex) edge is almost as long and just as sharp . One look at the base of the blade will tell you that this is the original turn of the 18c. mounting material (there is a lot of it and it looks almost ancient ) . This is a chopping sword capable of a devastating back slash , and of penetrating maille with a stab .

I think it is the most ferocious sword I have ever handled , made for the melee .

[tom hyle]

The back edge (usually shorter on kirach; this one is unusual at least to my experience, and it sounds like to that of others as well) looks sharper perhaps because its bevel is wider; I'm pretty sure this is due to the blade having somewhat of an overall wedge-section, rather than being flat (?) thus for the same angle (is it?) to come to an edge takes a wider descent thru the thicker metal at the spine side of the wedge?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

The back edge (usually shorter on kirach; this one is unusual at least to my experience, and it sounds like to that of others as well) looks sharper perhaps because its bevel is wider; I'm pretty sure this is due to the blade having somewhat of an overall wedge-section, rather than being flat (?) thus for the same angle (is it?) to come to an edge takes a wider descent thru the thicker metal at the spine side of the wedge?

Flat but thick .

It is slightly wedge section at the base but at mid point and judging by eye (misplaced my caliper ) it appears to be flat .

[Jim McDougall]

Just noticed on a shortword size 'sosun pattah' ? with khanjhar form parrot head steel hilt that I have, the blade tip also has the armour piercing reinforcement. This weapon is undoubtedly Mughal and 19th c. but more interesting now that I have seen this kirach.

Once again buried in a sea of archival debris, I at last found some references to that confounded 'sunburst' or whatever it is on the blade!!
In "Wallace Collection Catalogs:European Arms & Armour" Sir James Mann, 1962, p.390, this marking appears on a Swiss dagger c.1560 in two of them parallel. Somehow, it makes no reference to the meaning, despite the fact that the time was taken to draw them! grrr!
I found these toothed circles again in "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, #545) on the blade of a sabre d. 1600-1610. These appear in multiple combinations of one on either side of an almond shape with the same toothed design. These appear as motif in the fullers, with about 20 of them in all.

While on an Indian weapon, we may expect such a symbol to have either religious or talismanic/auspicious meanings. However if these have been duplicated from European blades, as often was the case, such symbols may be derived from cabbalistic/alchemical devices. A symbol very similar to this only with a concentric dot center is used in context to describe fire. There are numerous ideograms with dots etc. that denote iron, as well as 'wind furnace' (=forge).

It is unfortunate that whatever was between the 'sunbursts' is obliterated as it might help further establishing possible meaning. Another thing that seems significant in markings that sometimes appear on these blades is the key and unusual places they appear. For example, a grouping of specific number of dots placed at the choil or peak of false edge of a blade.
Many of these mysterious marks have alchemical or cabbalistic meaning that is of course long lost to us, but may have been well understood at the time these blades were made.

Best regards,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Ahah! Just discovered something in S. Haider "Arms & Armour of Muslim India" p.99. A heavy fabric coat studded with large nails has in the middle of the back a large silver boss with silver metal lines projecting from it, much like our familiar sunburst. It is stated this is a 'hazagund' (zirah hazar maikhi), a type of armour that is noted by Robinson ("Oriental Armour" p.103) as termed by the Rajputs 'coat of a thousand nails'.
Haider notes further that Lahore was the greatest center for armour making for the Mughals and made the finest examples.
Possibly the symbolism might be found here?
Jim

[Rick]

Here's the best close up I can get for now .

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Rick,
Thank you for the extra shot of the markings.
I cannot resist noting that the more I see this sword, the more I like it!
The wear that has obscured the markings as well as the rough patination where the metallic covering has left distinctly suggests age, and to me that is solid beauty!!
Despite the fact that the apparantly stamped images between the toothed circle appear indistinguishable, the positioning is key. The fact that these toothed circles appear in the same sequence as used in the Italian motif is what is important, and the early 17th century provenance of these markings as well. Such markings found on European blades seem to have profoundly influenced many armourers in India as they used interpretations of them in many variations to declare quality and talismanic virtue on their own blades.
Ironically, this outstanding blade certainly needed no such superfluous pronouncements or markings!

It is also a note of interest, while reviewing Italian markings I noticed the familiar 'sickle marks' that have so often been a matter of discussion. These of course also carry the 'toothed' application seen on these discs as well as on almond shaped figures that often appear with these toothed discs in combination. The 'sickle marks' that are often associated with early Genoan markings, and more commonly Styrian application, appear almost consistantly on Afghani palouars' blades. While the markings are obviously not the same, it is interesting that their 'toothing' is similar, and their earlier ancestry seems to Italian armourers, with thier use found in the NW quadrant of India.
Good grief! I'm starting to sound like a dentist with all this toothy talk!!!

Best regards,
Jim

[tom hyle]

OK, here's the thing. If, as Rick says, (and as is fairly common) the sword is wedge sectioned, but becomes flat or nearly so by the cutting area, then the false edge must be at a more acute/fine angle than the true edge, because the rear bevel appears to be consistantly wider. The interesting thing about this is that it would be consistent with a US fighting style featuring an large bowie with the "clip" sharped to a hatchet-like angle, when it is used, as some insist is the correct way, with the main edge upward, toward the thumb....

[Jim McDougall]

Tom,
Nicely observed ! If I may say so, I think your comments and observations on the dynamics and construction of arms and armour are outstanding. It seems most of my focus is always on aesthetics or markings, while you do a great job at noting key component and constructional factors often overlooked.
Thank you for giving us this important perspective.
All the best,
Jim

[Rick]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

OK, here's the thing. If, as Rick says, (and as is fairly common) the sword is wedge sectioned, but becomes flat or nearly so by the cutting area, then the false edge must be at a more acute/fine angle than the true edge, because the rear bevel appears to be consistantly wider. The interesting thing about this is that it would be consistent with a US fighting style featuring an large bowie with the "clip" sharped to a hatchet-like angle, when it is used, as some insist is the correct way, with the main edge upward, toward the thumb....

Back edge is much more acute than concave edge .

Give this man a fine Cuban Cigar !
He is absolutely correct in his observation .