Sarajevo knife and fork.

[Tim Simmons]

Bought this very nice set of cutlery to go in my camp equipment. The knife looks quite substantial almost a dagger. Just thought they looked good and might be old.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Bought this very nice set of cutlery to go in my camp equipment. The knife looks quite substantial almost a dagger. Just thought they looked good and might be old.

Apparently about 1886 vintage... Jolly nice! See https://www.pinterest.com/pin/180988478752536828/

[gp]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Bought this very nice set of cutlery to go in my camp equipment. The knife looks quite substantial almost a dagger. Just thought they looked good and might be old.

similer set although with a slightly smaller spoon:

total length 11,5 cm
spoon handle; 7,5 cm
spoon part: 4 cm

width :
handle : 0,9 cm
connection handle2spoon: 0,4 cm
spoon widest: 2 cm

[gp]

another set :

- knife made from bone ( typical Bosnian from Sarajevo)
- fork made from mountain goat / chamois

remarkable is that it is the first time I ever did see a square handle on a Sarajevo Bosnian knife.

As for diminsions ( all in cm )

total lenght knife 31,7 blade 18,5 handle 13,7 copper connection 3
total lenght fork 31 blade 18 handle 11 copper connection 2

[gp]

and a 3rd set from Sarajevo Bosnia

Knife 32 cm
Fork 33 cm

[gp]

Originally Posted by gp

another set :

- knife made from bone ( typical Bosnian from Sarajevo)
- fork made from mountain goat / chamois

remarkable is that it is the first time I ever did see a square handle on a Sarajevo Bosnian knife.

As for diminsions ( all in cm )

total lenght knife 31,7 blade 18,5 handle 13,7 copper connection 3
total lenght fork 31 blade 18 handle 11 copper connection 2

some additional pics on the square handle knife

[gp]

Originally Posted by gp

and a 3rd set from Sarajevo Bosnia

Knife 32 cm
Fork 33 cm

also here some more detailed pics, unfortunately the year on the knife could not be better shown

[gp]

request for advice: I just received this set ( although I knew about the lacking piece of horn on the knife ) was wondering what to do?
Normally from an authentic / original perspective 2 options can be applied:

1. leave as is
2. add a replacement piece in such a way that a clear difference can be seen between original and authentic piece versus addition.

This is done f.i. with historic seals or old books or jewelry.

Henceforth looking forward to your experience and advice being the new kid on the block... THNX a lot

[Tim Simmons]

If you can get the handle off it will be easy to form another spacer from bone and when polished will fit in very well.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

If you can get the handle off it will be easy to form another spacer from bone and when polished will fit in very well.

Thnx a lot for the advice !

[gp]

Proof that most of these smaller knives from a later date were made for non combat reasons but rather ceremonial, domestic or touristic use by the K.u.K. officers corps is for instance this original cutlery set box from 1889

[gp]

seperate from the cutlery box, I have seen several times an original set containing one single knive ( smal bichaq) with one fork and sometimes one spoon being wrapped in a leather cloth.
This being pure functional : for picknick or field lunches by the officers in Bosnia, Hercegowina and Sandzjak.
Rarely one sees a luxery version like the enclosed set in a scabbard.
This is also an early set as it lacks the year BUT has Sarajevo written in Arabic Turkish caligraphic letters next to Sarajevo in Latin writing, which one does not see at all in later sets { i.e. from the late 188-ies}

[gp]

just new in my collection 4 sets: bone, brass and steel, nickel plated

white bone: length 20,3 cm, forks 19 cm
green bone: length 21,3 cm, forks 20,8 cm

[gp]

some better pics on the 2 green sets after cleaning the dirt and a little corrosion

I did not notice before & when buying them, nor was it anyway to be seen on the sellers advert an issue I found remarkable and never did see with any "cutlery"sets before is that the maker went very much into detail of copying a yataghan :
the fork having 2 and knife having 3 nails at the top back of the ears / wings

any one in the forum seen or having a similar set with these 2 and 3 nails ?

[gp]

Originally Posted by gp

and a 3rd set from Sarajevo Bosnia

Knife 32 cm
Fork 33 cm

never thought they would come bigger, but just stumbled on this set
knife 39 cm
Fork 35 cm

with 2 sets, at least I can invite Detlef for a BABI PANGANG now :-)))

[gp]

latest set I was happy to find :

knife & fork with a grip / handle I never have seen before
neither bichaqs or other knife / dagger types from Bosnia
yet it has all the characteristic ornaments:the combination of the below 3

- circular / rings with three copper wheel-like pieces in them
- metal, iron rivets on top
- bone grip

need to clean them ( green copper oxidation on the bone) when they arrive.

Any of you seen these grips before ?


BR

Gunar

[Battara]

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

Just something different, possibly made to imitate the color of a mineral, like malachite.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

my guess is contamination by the copper rings due to bad storagein a humid place, but I can give a better reply once I have received them and cleaned / restored them.
I have seen it with some bichaqs of my collections before.
The green ones are complete green and do not show this kind of deterioration; they look like the above ones or the attached one
Folks handle swords with care, daggers also but the smaller items get often less care, specially these kind of cutlery.


Please bear with me....and I answer when I'll get them

[Battara]

Yes I'm not talking about a green hue like oxidized copper, but when the bone is dyed green.

[Saracen]

Yes, I'm interested in it too. What is the meaning of the green color of the hilts ?

[gp]

I just recceived them yesterday; as I thought..they were in poor condition, very dirty.
It took some time to get the dirt of it, next to the fact that due to poor storage and the copper ornaments being close together, the corrossion / oxidation went unfortunately also deep into the white bone grip.
Although I could clean some of it during a few days and using several methods, still some green contamination remained. I do not want to "clean" them any further as it might have a negative impact on the structure of the bone and cause other unwanted damage....I added some other forks to compare the looks from a color perspective

The green color of the knife above # 19 is just a layer added to the bone hilt, which is normal applied to the Bosnian small knives and bichaqs and sold to dignitaries or tourist after the occupation and later annexation by Austria in 1878. No green ones before that period during the Ottoman rule...

Root cause for this dark green in # 19 was simple another form of decoration but no other reason ; you can peel it of. A couple of damaged pieces on green ones I have show this clearly. nothing of the latter can be found in the literature of the last 200 years and nor have yataghans ever been made in that color ; only the bjelo (white) and crno (black) ones....

With literature I mean not only the Western literature but also the literature from the Balkan countries since 1878.

Remarkable with this set is the fact that although the total lenght is the same, the fork piece versus the blade is not. Something which doesn't occur in this way with the other sets from the handle / grip lenght ( knife gripis almost half the fork grip lenght)

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by gp

with 2 sets, at least I can invite Detlef for a BABI PANGANG now :-)))

Ini enak sekali!

[gp]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Ini enak sekali!

Selamat makan / enjoy the food mein Freund ! ☼

[gp]

my latest purchase, just received , is this set and is most beautiful and best intact of my collection with regards to the golden decoration and writting being almost untouched.

One question remains: what is written in Arabic writting?

As certainly "Sarajevo" it is not:

- the S is missing
- also the combination of other letters in caligraphic do not make sense
- no similarities with previous or other knives and bichaqs from my collection

or I might be missing something...any advise is more than welcome!

[gp]

concerning the long forks as in

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...34&postcount=7

I just got a similar one but with one difference:

most of these long forks ( 31 cm long or more) either have only a decoration on the top of the metal piece where the fork goes into the grip or in gold Sarajevo written in Latin writting with flower decoration on the reverse side.

This new one has as well Sarajevo and the date 1888 written but next to Latin on one side also something on the reverse side in Arab writting of which I could decipher "Sarajevo" but no date in Arabic writting and something else written for which my knowledge of Arab writting is too little.
Obvious the language is most likely Bosnian in Turkish translated probably and in Arab writting...which doesn't make it any eassier...

Any one a guess ??? Much obliged if you could or would ...☺