buginesse

[Ganja Iras]

dear all ,

here i presenting my keris pic's for comment
all of the them are in old sheath with silver pendhok.
thank you

Ganja Iras

[David]

Some closer and/or larger images might be helpful for a better assessment. From what i can see i am liking the second from the left the best...

[Battara]

Now are all these court keris? What status are they?

[Jean]

Hello Ganja Iras,
Very nice pieces, congratulations! More detailed pictures will be welcome indeed.
It seems to me that the pendoks and passio sumange/ toli-toli with rosette are recently made in a style attributed to Sumbawa, please confirm.
Best regards

[David]

I wouldn't mind hearing more thoughts on the cultural/status significance of the "toli-toli". I believe we had a brief discussion on these once before.

[A. G. Maisey]

I find this recent profusion of toli-toli very interesting.

By about age 30 I had accumulated over 3000 keris. These were not all beautiful, perfect complete keris, but keris in every stage of disrepair and damage and I worked on a lot of them and returned them to something approximating fairly acceptable keris. By the time I was about 40 I'd reduced that 3000+ to no more than 40 pretty decent keris that were all original and in good condition, and this was the foundation for my present collection. During my thirties I put a lot of keris through auctions, both in Australia and in the UK --- this was long before ebay had ever been thought of.

Since the early 1970's I have been buying keris in Indonesia and from other countries --- UK, USA, Europe. My present personal collection is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300 keris.

Now, the reason I find the present profusion of toli-toli to be so interesting is that I have only ever owned two keris with toli-toli, and in both cases those toli-toli were rather simple red cords, not beautiful examples of the jewellers art.

It is rather pleasing to see this revival of the production of toli-toli that originally were probably owned by only a handful of nobles, this gives most of us the opportunity to add exquisite pieces to our collections, pieces that 50 years ago we could never even have dreamed of possessing.

[asomotif]

I would love to see some close up pictures of the blades and handles.

As for the toli toli. These look like well made examples, but they indeed appear to be recently additions. I wonder how the original scabbards where.

Sometimes the bottom of these scabbard are very well made with wooden buntut. Now the old original wooden buntut are simply removed to add a silver example that is not original.
Sure, it is silver and looks luxurious, but it is a later addition and out of its context. I am not in favour of this.

[Gustav]

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

[A. G. Maisey]

I am inclined to agree that the context of any "improvement" to an older keris is something that does need consideration.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by Gustav

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

I must agree to say some of these not bugis.
quite an observaion Gustav.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I wouldn't mind hearing more thoughts on the cultural/status significance of the "toli-toli". I believe we had a brief discussion on these once before.

Hello David,
You can find a short topic regarding the significance of the passio sumange (Sulawesi term) on page 153 of the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" but I am unable to translate it clearly so may be an Indonesian member can do it for us...
Best regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Gustav

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

It would be interesting to know from where Ganja Iras got these pieces, from various places or a single source?
Best regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

It would be interesting to know from where Ganja Iras got these pieces, from various places or a single source?
Best regards

That's a good question. To my eye the silver work appears very similar (though somewhat stylistically different) as is all these perhaps came out of the same shop.

[asomotif]

With the risk of being far too blunt...
Could it be that this thread belongs more or less in the swap section ?

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

With the risk of being far too blunt...
Could it be that this thread belongs more or less in the swap section ?

Well. i don't see any indication that Ganja Iras is selling these keris. Of course he also has not returned to answer any of the questions asked these pieces or post any detailed images as requested more than once. You still out there Ganja???

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I wouldn't mind hearing more thoughts on the cultural/status significance of the "toli-toli". I believe we had a brief discussion on these once before.

Hello David,
One distinguished forum member was kind enough to make a summarized translation of the topic in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" as follows:

"The passsio sumange (or toli-toli) functions to bring together the "energy" of humanity and iron (in the sense of weaponry?) so that they can live together in harmony.
Apart from being an accessory, the passio sumange functions as a safeguard. In past times if you wanted to meet with the Raja the kris had to be tight in the scabbard and tightly tied with the passio sumange. This was done to ensure that the kris did not suddenly come out in front of the Raja. If that happened, the person with the kris would be immediately stabbed because it was considered that he intended to do something that was not good for the safety of the Raja.
Apart from that, according to Bissu Matowa Saidi, if considered from the mystic pont of view, the pasio sumange is also able to give a vibration to the wearer that something will happen to threaten him or his family."

Thanks to the contributor and regards.

[Ganja Iras]

dear all..here i post some closer pic's of the blades ,warangka and also (new made ) silver pendhok and toli toli.
thanks to you guys

ganja iras

[Battara]

Nice work.

The top one that you posted today seems to perhaps have some damage covered up by some later silver chasing work at the bottom of the scabbard next to the buntut.

[Jean]

The silver sheets used for making the pendoks are thin, the warangkas look old but the first one is disproportionately long for the blade so probably not originally matching with it.
Ganja Iras did not tell us yet from where or whom did he got these pieces, this would be an interesting information for us I think. I have 2 similar pieces bought in Lombok which I already showed in this forum.
Regards

[Ganja Iras]

Originally Posted by Jean

The silver sheets used for making the pendoks are thin, the warangkas look old but the first one is disproportionately long for the blade so probably not originally matching with it.
Ganja Iras did not tell us yet from where or whom did he got these pieces, this would be an interesting information for us I think. I have 2 similar pieces bought in Lombok which I already showed in this forum.
Regards

hallo Jean ,

I really want to give you more info about the kerisses ,but my english not so good .
I obtain all of them from keris seller in sumbawa island ,and he told me that he found it in bima .
All off the blade and warangka / sheaths are old ,and the silver pendhok toli toli pendhokok (mendhak ) are newly made in lombok : somewhere arround mataram .
I hope you'll satisfied with my little info.
Thanks and regards ,

Ganja iras

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Jean

The silver sheets used for making the pendoks are thin

Yes that makes sense since repousse needs thin sheets to do the work.

[Jean]

Hello Ganja Iras,
Thank you very much for the useful information and it confirms my impression that this type of Bugis kris originates from Sumbawa and they are refurbished and embellished in Lombok.
And your English is good enough to be perfectly understood, don't be shy!
Best regards

Originally Posted by Ganja Iras

hallo Jean ,

I really want to give you more info about the kerisses ,but my english not so good .
I obtain all of them from keris seller in sumbawa island ,and he told me that he found it in bima .
All off the blade and warangka / sheaths are old ,and the silver pendhok toli toli pendhokok (mendhak ) are newly made in lombok : somewhere arround mataram .
I hope you'll satisfied with my little info.
Thanks and regards ,

Ganja iras