Tlingit dagger for discussion

Sajen · 4th August 2014, 03:33 PM

Since we don't see this daggers very often I will post this one which recently ended by ebay for sharing and discussion: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tlingit-Dagg...#ht_101wt_1153

Here the description from the seller for later reference:

Athabascan Tlingit 15" Dagger from the WH Newton Collection taken in trade from one of his posts along the Upper Tanana River Basin between 1885-1905. Documentation of his early co-existence and trade with the Tlingit is found through U of Alaska's Archives/ Historical Chronicles/Fairbanks/Tanana Trading Post/William H. Newton. This dagger has been preserved as part of his collection for 125 years. The turquoise patina is not indicative of joinery or serious corruption in the dagger, but a reflects a seepage of moisture during storage. After a 25 year sojourn in Alaska's interior as a trader (the Tlingit were still semi-nomadic when Newton established 'posts' along their established migratory paths in the Upper Tanana River Basin area in the Northwest Territories).

And here some of the pictures.

VANDOO · 4th August 2014, 04:18 PM

ITS GOOD TO SEE A VERY NICE EXAMPLE WITH PROVENANCE. THE TWO AREAS OF BLUE CORROSION MAY HAVE OCCURRED IN BANDS BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF SOME COLORFUL TRADE CLOTH TIED IN THOSE AREAS. IT WOULD HAVE ATTRACTED MOISTURE ESPECIALLY AS IT ROTTED AND NOW HAS FALLEN AWAY OR BEEN REMOVED. THERE MAY BE SIMILAR CORROSION UNDER THE LEATHER WRAP ON THE GRIP IF IT IS THE ORIGINAL WRAP.

LJ · 4th August 2014, 04:22 PM

Well, there's a coincidence: the copper version of the iron knife I posted today! I get the impression that this shape of dagger was found across northern Canada, but I guess that because "native" copper (i.e. copper that is found as the metal, and not as a mineral ore) occurs in the Northwest Coast, the copper ones were more common in the Western area. But, I haven't really been able to find much information about them.

Now, why don't I keep an eye on ebay? Because I'd soon be bankrupt, that's why!

archer · 4th August 2014, 04:49 PM

Here's a link to a disputed study regarding Tlingit knife making. Keep in mind the Copper River is a huge source. http://www.penn.museum/documents/pub...Metallurgy.pdf

While this thread starts out with a Tlingit /Haida Shakats, it has examples of varied design changes. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13961 Oh, The double Double bladed type called shakáts, a type of “combat knife” that swung a blade both directions, unless it was used to do the actual “slave killing” along with the “ceremonial blade” then it was known as goox du een (with the slave). : Keet Gwálaa (Killer Whale Dagger) used in “ceremonial killings but never in “combat" See photo. The culture saw slaves as wealth and it is not clear to Me where ceremony ends and actual killings took place for tribal status.
Steve

4th August 2014, 03:33 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Tlingit dagger for discussion Since we don't see this daggers very often I will post this one which recently ended by ebay for sharing and discussion: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tlingit-Dagg...#ht_101wt_1153 Here the description from the seller for later reference: Athabascan Tlingit 15" Dagger from the WH Newton Collection taken in trade from one of his posts along the Upper Tanana River Basin between 1885-1905. Documentation of his early co-existence and trade with the Tlingit is found through U of Alaska's Archives/ Historical Chronicles/Fairbanks/Tanana Trading Post/William H. Newton. This dagger has been preserved as part of his collection for 125 years. The turquoise patina is not indicative of joinery or serious corruption in the dagger, but a reflects a seepage of moisture during storage. After a 25 year sojourn in Alaska's interior as a trader (the Tlingit were still semi-nomadic when Newton established 'posts' along their established migratory paths in the Upper Tanana River Basin area in the Northwest Territories). And here some of the pictures. Attached Images

4th August 2014, 04:49 PM	#4
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Tlingit Copper daggers Here's a link to a disputed study regarding Tlingit knife making. Keep in mind the Copper River is a huge source. http://www.penn.museum/documents/pub...Metallurgy.pdf While this thread starts out with a Tlingit /Haida Shakats, it has examples of varied design changes. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13961 Oh, The double Double bladed type called shakáts, a type of “combat knife” that swung a blade both directions, unless it was used to do the actual “slave killing” along with the “ceremonial blade” then it was known as goox du een (with the slave). : Keet Gwálaa (Killer Whale Dagger) used in “ceremonial killings but never in “combat" See photo. The culture saw slaves as wealth and it is not clear to Me where ceremony ends and actual killings took place for tribal status. Steve Attached Images Last edited by archer; 5th August 2014 at 12:31 AM.

4th August 2014, 04:18 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS GOOD TO SEE A VERY NICE EXAMPLE WITH PROVENANCE. THE TWO AREAS OF BLUE CORROSION MAY HAVE OCCURRED IN BANDS BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF SOME COLORFUL TRADE CLOTH TIED IN THOSE AREAS. IT WOULD HAVE ATTRACTED MOISTURE ESPECIALLY AS IT ROTTED AND NOW HAS FALLEN AWAY OR BEEN REMOVED. THERE MAY BE SIMILAR CORROSION UNDER THE LEATHER WRAP ON THE GRIP IF IT IS THE ORIGINAL WRAP.

4th August 2014, 04:22 PM	#3
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	Well, there's a coincidence: the copper version of the iron knife I posted today! I get the impression that this shape of dagger was found across northern Canada, but I guess that because "native" copper (i.e. copper that is found as the metal, and not as a mineral ore) occurs in the Northwest Coast, the copper ones were more common in the Western area. But, I haven't really been able to find much information about them. Now, why don't I keep an eye on ebay? Because I'd soon be bankrupt, that's why!