ID need of man with spear

[Nonoy Tan]

Here is an old photo of a man holding a spear, supposedly taken in the year 1870. Can somebody ID the probable ethnic backgroud of the man on the basis of the spear (or scarification on his body)?

The photo indicates "moro". Is this a misnomer?

The curly hair may indicate that this man was of negrito descent. If indeed he was moro (i.e. from Mindanao), has anybody read about negritos fighting for the moros (or moros emploring negrito men for war)?

Thanks,

Nonoy

[Rick]

Probably not Moro .
Some Hill tribe more likely .

[Jim McDougall]

Wouldn't the spear he's holding be a good clue?
Could he be Igorot?

[Battara]

Acutally I would not even say Philippines. The spear is not Igorot and this is definately not Moro.

[Jim McDougall]

Obviously I was guessing Jose So where do you suppose this guy is from?
Jim

[t_c]

I think the scarification is the clue. I'm voting New Guinea...

http://www.amonline.net.au/bodyart/scarring/papua.htm

[katana]

The spear head is similar to PNG types .... (assuming it is wooden, difficult to tell from the photo)

David

[Nonoy Tan]

This type of scarification is found in many parts of the globe e.g. Papua New Guinea, the Philippines, Indonesia, etc. I believe that each peoples or "tribe" would have a unique set of designs. I did not find the same design in the PNG website, so more clues are needed.

The spear design is new to me and may or may not be an original design from peoples inhabiting the Southern Philippines, or Sumatra, etc. - before the influence of the moros took hold (I am guessing).

Does anybody have samples of 19th century Sumatra spears? How about 19th century PNG spears?

[Bill]

Don't forget Negrito from Thailand but I'd guess Southern Philippines because of the "Moro". The spear seems "Naga" like but not a match for anything I've seen.

[Nonoy Tan]

Yes, the negritos of Andaman Islands are also candidates. The negritos are allegedly the original inhabitants of these places mentioned before the arrival of the malay and indonesian "races."

Here are two photos that I found. One photo is that of a negrito (not known from which part of the Philippines) with an armband which to me has a resemblance to the one worn by the mystery "Moro" (?) man. The photo is not sharp though.

Another photo (also not sharp) shows the scarification of a Negrito (from Northeast Luzon).

Any more leads?

[Pukka Bundook]

I have a good friend, who in the 70's spent some time amongst the Asmat people of PNG.
He has some spears he brought home that (to me ) look identical to this one. From his photos, this man looks to be from the same race, too.
The only thing is that on my friends photos, the men on ceremonial occasions wore a curled shell ornament through their noses. these were taken out and I gather not worn at all times.

Very good picture, BTW.

Richard.

PS, on looking at the picture with the arm-band, I recall similar arm-bands on my friends pictures. They were made with feathers, often in bright colours.

I could ask him to send some pictures, as he does have complete sets of costumes and weaponry belonging to these people.

[Tim Simmons]

In my opinion this fellow is nothing to do with Papuans. He looks very much a Negrito which is a rather catch all word. These two chaps in this picture taken in Malaya, could be the brothers of the spear holding man. The spear would fit the Malayan jungle people. As has been noted the spread of these people is in South East Asia/ Australasia. Papuans are Melanesians in the sience of these things quite different I believe.

These links have some bearing on the matter. I would still say the chap in question is not Melanesian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Australoid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid
A bit like calling Naga's Indian?

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

I tend to agree, but remember that in the western Papua area and Indonesian islands to the west of Irian, there is a lot of intermixing between Papuan and Indonesian ethno-types, same as on Luzon.

I tend to discount the Andamanese, because they are either Stone Age (and uncontacted) or were assimilated most of a century ago.

[Tim Simmons]

Hmmm, I wonder how far this mix actually goes. I know which side I am on.

[VANDOO]

MELANESIAN, AUSTRUALASIAN,POLYNESIAN,MENEHUNIE,NEGRITOS, AND THEN WHALERS AND EXPLORERS AND BEACH BUMS NO WONDER THERE IS QUITE A MIX.

I SUSPECT THE MAN IN QUESTION MAY BE FROM ONE OF THE MANY ISLANDS IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC BUT CAN NOT GUESS ANY CLOSER THAN THAT. HE SEEMS TO HAVE MORE ORIENTAL IN THE MIX THAN POLYNESIAN OR ABORIGINAL FROM NEW GUINEA OR AUSTRALIA. PERHAPS SOME OF THE ISLANDS NORTH EAST OF NEW GUINEA?
THE POLYNESIANS MOSTLY PRACTICED TATOOING THE AUSTRALIAN AND SOME NEW GUINEA ABORIGINALS PRACTICE THE SCARIFICATION. SCARIFICATION IS ALSO PRACTICED QUITE A BIT IN AFRICA. SORRY I CAN'T BE OF MORE HELP GOOD LUCK ON YOUR SEARCH.

[Matt Splatt]

I don't think facial features are a very reliable track to use as there is great variance amongst even isolated populations not to mention the the number of mixtures that are possible. What about that hilt at the bottom of the picture? Could we get an enlargement of the pommel? We might have some clues there. Any way just my two cents.

[saint o'killers]

not Negrito or Moro...the scars is a very good clue. Tribes from the north usually sport FAtoc or tribal tattoo patterns to prove they have taken heads.

[Tim Simmons]

Stuff on west Papuans.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

[Nonoy Tan]

Unfortunately, the photo does not show the bolo/knife in its entirety. Thus, the spear and the scarification are probably the best evidences available.

Still, we have not found a similar spear or scarification design that can positively ID the man. More research is needed

Nonoy

[Tim Simmons]

Some stuff here and far from certain especially about older practices.