keris-film

sirek · 1st January 2010, 08:07 PM

For those who have not seen this documentary already,

"Keris In Malay World "

including: empu Djeno Harumbrodjo making a keris

http://kelantan.muzium.net/v2/index....d=61&Itemid=86

(unfortunately the film does not run until the end

)

enjoy

Alam Shah · 1st January 2010, 09:14 PM

Available in DVD and VCD media format. The empu Djeno footage is informative, so is the other 'batik painting' method shown, and the 'wire-inlay' arabic text modifications, etc.

David · 18th January 2010, 07:19 PM

Don't know why it took me so long to actually watch this. Great documentary. I wish that it didn't cut off at the end. Certainly one of the most complete viewings of keris making i have yet to see.

Thanks for posting this.

ThePepperSkull · 18th January 2010, 09:12 PM

Very informative, especially for those like myself who are just beginning to learn about keris!

Thank you for posting this up, It is very well appreciated!

ferrylaki · 19th January 2010, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirek

For those who have not seen this documentary already,

"Keris In Malay World "

including: empu Djeno Harumbrodjo making a keris

http://kelantan.muzium.net/v2/index....d=61&Itemid=86

(unfortunately the film does not run until the end

)

enjoy

I thought empu Djeno was Indonesian...

David · 19th January 2010, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

I thought empu Djeno was Indonesian...

Javanese i believe to be more precise. I believe that the documentary was operating on the assumption that Malay culture extends through societies that speak Malay based languages and Jawa would indeed be one of them.

ferrylaki · 19th January 2010, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Javanese i believe to be more precise. I believe that the documentary was operating on the assumption that Malay culture extends through societies that speak Malay based languages and Jawa would indeed be one of them.

thank you David. I found a similar video in youtube last year. perhaps it was the same video mentioned before. showing the keris making in late empu Djeno's besalen.

A. G. Maisey · 19th January 2010, 09:02 AM

I actually thought that the Malaysians had highjacked Djeno.

Javanese and Malay are both Austronesian languages --- along with many other languages, including languages spoken across the Pacific, as far east as Easter Island.

The boundaries of the idea of a "Malay World" have been debated by academics for many years. Some want to limit the Malay World to the core cultures such as Malaya, Indonesia and a couple of other countries, others want to include all those places where an Austronesian language is spoken.

A few years ago a friend of mine made a short documentary of Djeno at work. I don't know if he is still selling copies, but I'll try to find out.

Alam Shah · 19th January 2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A few years ago a friend of mine made a short documentary of Djeno at work. I don't know if he is still selling copies, but I'll try to find out.

I'm interested to get a copy.. btw, last weekend, while looking for a book in my storage boxes, stumbled upon Knives '90.. while browsing thru' it, found a keris article, The GREAT blades of JAVA, written by your good self, 20 years ago. First time I see a picture of you..

BluErf · 19th January 2010, 03:04 PM

Ah, Shahrial, maybe I can borrow the magazine from you sometime? Or read a scanned copy of it?

I would gladly purchase a copy of the video of Empu Djeno at work, if it is still available.

sirek · 19th January 2010, 08:32 PM

I thought it was worth to place it,
now you can see how much work it is to make a (good) keris.
You can read about it, but it is difficult to imagine how it's really done.

Quote:

thank you David. I found a similar video in youtube last year. perhaps it was the same video mentioned before. showing the keris making in late empu Djeno's besalen.

maybe this is the other movie one youtube that you mentioned

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=aAjwWIrZyyw

A. G. Maisey · 19th January 2010, 10:39 PM

That Knives'90 article was written in 1988 or '89. At that time I was very heavily involved in custom knife making, mostly making damascus blades for other makers in both Australia and the USA. One of my big selling points was that I almost never signed a blade, so there are a lot of my blades out there with somebody else's name on them. Of course I was also involved with keris, Pak Parman was still with us, and I felt that as a part of my committment to keris culture I should try to spread awareness of the keris into the world outside Jawa.

This was the late 1980's --- no internet, a few keris study societies in Jawa but virtually nowhere else, venues to introduce the keris to a wider audience were gunshows, Indonesian cultural fests, and the custom knife community. I did gunshows from the mid 1970's, I participated in Indonesian cultural displays and events, Knives '90 was an attempt to introduce the keris to the custom knife fraternity. It worked reasonably well.

The article I wrote for Knives '90 was very, very basic. It was aimed at a readership who could be expected to know absolutely nothing at all about the keris.

The title of the published article was the invention of the editor --- you should have seen his first two attempts!! My title was :- "An Introduction to the Keris". Apparently my title was not sexy enough.

The video I mentioned was produced by a gentleman named Kieth Spencer. He and his wife visited Jawa in about 2000 --- I forget the exact date, but it was around the time when the troubles were in full swing. Kieth is a wheel in the Australian knife collecting community.His wife Joan has an interest in keris, and I understand occasionally visits this forum. I have already emailed him and asked if the video is still available for sale. I do not expect a fast response.

A. G. Maisey · 20th January 2010, 08:14 AM

I've had a response re the video.

In VCR format it collapsed during editing.

Currently is under production in DVD format and should be available at about end April.

I will advise when I know it is ready.

David · 20th January 2010, 04:25 PM

Thanks Alan. I would certainly be interested in a DVD of this.

rasdan · 22nd January 2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I actually thought that the Malaysians had highjacked Djeno.

I'm sorry Alan, i would have to disagree on this. The video did give Empu Djeno's origin and where he resided and this cannot be regarded as "hijacking" by Malaysia.

In all of the cases where Malaysia had been said to be "claiming" this and that the accusation is actually a slander/inaccurate and these issues have been raised just to generate hate towards Malaysia. Thanks.

Rasdan

A. G. Maisey · 23rd January 2010, 10:54 AM

Yes Rasdan, I can understand that you would.

As would anybody who read my words with no understanding of the Australian character or sense of humour.

I should have been more careful in my choice of words, and I should have realised that I was writing something that would be read by an international readership, not just an Australian readership.

It is a flaw in the Australian character, and most particularly in my character that much of what we say is said tongue in cheek. We tend to use obviously inaccurate over statement as vehicle for humour, we very often fail to take ourselves seriously, and similarly very often fail to take other people seriously.

These character traits can be a handicap when dealing with people who do not have the capacity to poke fun at life in general, and at aspects of life in particular.

It is probably true to say that I, and most other Australians of my generation and cultural descent, really only take those things seriously which can be considered to be of a weighty nature.

I offer my most sincere apologies for my failure to remember that many people regard some matters seriously, which I, and others may regard as so much mist in the wind.

Please forgive my lack of cultural sensitivity.

BluErf · 24th January 2010, 11:41 AM

Thanks Alan! April will be here soon.

Regarding Indonesia and Malaysia, there had been some tension recently, and over who originally came up with what food and cultural performance. Some sort of "intellectual property" dispute I guess.

rasdan · 24th January 2010, 04:26 PM

G'day Alan,

Thanks for your explanation. No apologies required actually. Its just that some people may take things differently and ideas can have a varying impact coming from a different person. When it is published in the world wide web the effect can spread quite fast.

As for the friction between Malaysia and Indonesia, I am sure that all this provocation is cunningly created for the benefit of a small number of people at the expense of others. Indeed for us it is not a light issue.

For me, I take my Indonesian neighbors as brothers.

Again, thank you Alan for you explanation and I'm sure that others will understand what you meant.

Rasdan

A. G. Maisey · 25th January 2010, 08:52 AM

Yes indeed Rasdan, the content and intent of words can vary with the perception of both the user of those words, and he who hears or reads them.

1st January 2010, 08:07 PM	#1
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 169	keris-film For those who have not seen this documentary already, "Keris In Malay World " including: empu Djeno Harumbrodjo making a keris http://kelantan.muzium.net/v2/index....d=61&Itemid=86 (unfortunately the film does not run until the end ) enjoy

19th January 2010, 10:39 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	That Knives'90 article was written in 1988 or '89. At that time I was very heavily involved in custom knife making, mostly making damascus blades for other makers in both Australia and the USA. One of my big selling points was that I almost never signed a blade, so there are a lot of my blades out there with somebody else's name on them. Of course I was also involved with keris, Pak Parman was still with us, and I felt that as a part of my committment to keris culture I should try to spread awareness of the keris into the world outside Jawa. This was the late 1980's --- no internet, a few keris study societies in Jawa but virtually nowhere else, venues to introduce the keris to a wider audience were gunshows, Indonesian cultural fests, and the custom knife community. I did gunshows from the mid 1970's, I participated in Indonesian cultural displays and events, Knives '90 was an attempt to introduce the keris to the custom knife fraternity. It worked reasonably well. The article I wrote for Knives '90 was very, very basic. It was aimed at a readership who could be expected to know absolutely nothing at all about the keris. The title of the published article was the invention of the editor --- you should have seen his first two attempts!! My title was :- "An Introduction to the Keris". Apparently my title was not sexy enough. The video I mentioned was produced by a gentleman named Kieth Spencer. He and his wife visited Jawa in about 2000 --- I forget the exact date, but it was around the time when the troubles were in full swing. Kieth is a wheel in the Australian knife collecting community.His wife Joan has an interest in keris, and I understand occasionally visits this forum. I have already emailed him and asked if the video is still available for sale. I do not expect a fast response. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 19th January 2010 at 10:55 PM.

1st January 2010, 09:14 PM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Available in DVD and VCD media format. The empu Djeno footage is informative, so is the other 'batik painting' method shown, and the 'wire-inlay' arabic text modifications, etc.

18th January 2010, 07:19 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Don't know why it took me so long to actually watch this. Great documentary. I wish that it didn't cut off at the end. Certainly one of the most complete viewings of keris making i have yet to see. Thanks for posting this.

18th January 2010, 09:12 PM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Very informative, especially for those like myself who are just beginning to learn about keris! Thank you for posting this up, It is very well appreciated!

19th January 2010, 09:02 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	I actually thought that the Malaysians had highjacked Djeno. Javanese and Malay are both Austronesian languages --- along with many other languages, including languages spoken across the Pacific, as far east as Easter Island. The boundaries of the idea of a "Malay World" have been debated by academics for many years. Some want to limit the Malay World to the core cultures such as Malaya, Indonesia and a couple of other countries, others want to include all those places where an Austronesian language is spoken. A few years ago a friend of mine made a short documentary of Djeno at work. I don't know if he is still selling copies, but I'll try to find out.

19th January 2010, 03:04 PM	#10
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ah, Shahrial, maybe I can borrow the magazine from you sometime? Or read a scanned copy of it? I would gladly purchase a copy of the video of Empu Djeno at work, if it is still available.

20th January 2010, 08:14 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	I've had a response re the video. In VCR format it collapsed during editing. Currently is under production in DVD format and should be available at about end April. I will advise when I know it is ready.

20th January 2010, 04:25 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Thanks Alan. I would certainly be interested in a DVD of this.

23rd January 2010, 10:54 AM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Yes Rasdan, I can understand that you would. As would anybody who read my words with no understanding of the Australian character or sense of humour. I should have been more careful in my choice of words, and I should have realised that I was writing something that would be read by an international readership, not just an Australian readership. It is a flaw in the Australian character, and most particularly in my character that much of what we say is said tongue in cheek. We tend to use obviously inaccurate over statement as vehicle for humour, we very often fail to take ourselves seriously, and similarly very often fail to take other people seriously. These character traits can be a handicap when dealing with people who do not have the capacity to poke fun at life in general, and at aspects of life in particular. It is probably true to say that I, and most other Australians of my generation and cultural descent, really only take those things seriously which can be considered to be of a weighty nature. I offer my most sincere apologies for my failure to remember that many people regard some matters seriously, which I, and others may regard as so much mist in the wind. Please forgive my lack of cultural sensitivity.

24th January 2010, 11:41 AM	#17
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thanks Alan! April will be here soon. Regarding Indonesia and Malaysia, there had been some tension recently, and over who originally came up with what food and cultural performance. Some sort of "intellectual property" dispute I guess.

24th January 2010, 04:26 PM	#18
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	G'day Alan, Thanks for your explanation. No apologies required actually. Its just that some people may take things differently and ideas can have a varying impact coming from a different person. When it is published in the world wide web the effect can spread quite fast. As for the friction between Malaysia and Indonesia, I am sure that all this provocation is cunningly created for the benefit of a small number of people at the expense of others. Indeed for us it is not a light issue. For me, I take my Indonesian neighbors as brothers. Again, thank you Alan for you explanation and I'm sure that others will understand what you meant. Rasdan

25th January 2010, 08:52 AM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Yes indeed Rasdan, the content and intent of words can vary with the perception of both the user of those words, and he who hears or reads them.