Comments on this keris Picit?

Ganapati · 11th February 2022, 11:33 PM

Just got it from abroad today
I can thumbprint whorls

Rick · 12th February 2022, 01:04 AM

I'm skeptical about fingerprint whorls.

Layers of pamor might present as such, but look at your own thumbprint, compare how fine the print lines on your thumb are.

Good close-up shots might help confirm.

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2022, 02:20 AM

This is an old blade, it is not likely that any actual impressions from finger print whorls would remain after a few acid cleanings, if any were present in the first place.

Lets say, just for the sake of the exercise that this blade is somewhere between 100 & 150 years old, and it is likely older than that, how many times has it been acid cleaned during that period of time? How many times has it been forgotten for a few years, rust has built up, and the subsequent cleaning has removed both rust and any light indentations.

Impossible to be certain from a photo, but to my eye, this blade presents as a very plain, very difficult to sell keris. Totally unsaleable on the local market in Jawa as a dress keris, and it would need a lot of "support" to find a buyer anywhere.

The way that layering is lifting in the mid portion of the blade seems to indicate that this blade has been subjected to high heat long after it was first produced. Possibly localised heat, something like an oxy torch.

Ganapati · 12th February 2022, 03:44 AM

Yes it has fingerprint whorls
I examined it closely...im across the country right now and can't post closeups but will

It is a very, very old blade...been looking for a picit like this for a long time and finally found one.

I have no desire to resell it..am happy to have it
True pusaka!

Rick · 12th February 2022, 03:51 AM

May it bring you happiness.

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2022, 04:12 AM

GP, I'm very pleased that you have acquired a keris that brings you such a high degree of satisfaction, however, you have not acquired a keris pusaka.

The way in which finger print whorls are applied to both old & more recent keris is by the method that in Jawa we know as the "batik" method, it is called this because the blade, or an area of the blade, is covered in wax, the finger tips are pushed into the wax when it is still warm, this leaves a print in the wax, if necessary, these finger imprints are improved with a needle when the wax has hardened.

Once the finger prints or other design have been inscribed into the wax, the blade , or the localised area of the blade, is treated with acid, the finger print whorls that you can see are the result of acid etching.

After the pattern has been etched into the blade, the wax is removed with boiling water and the blade is cleaned and stained.

This topic of "batiking" a blade has probably been discussed previously on this forum, the practice is very well known to established collectors and students of the keris.

Ganapati · 13th February 2022, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

May it bring you happiness.

Thank you Rick

David · 14th February 2022, 03:27 PM

Like Rick i am glad you are happy with this keris. Ultimately that is the most important thing, that our collections bring us satisfaction. But i do have many doubts about this particular keris and i don’t believe these picit markings were done with a human hand.
I would also second Alan’s remark. A pusaka ceases to be a pusaka once the chain of kinship bond is broken. You cannot purchase a pusaka.

11th February 2022, 11:33 PM	#1
Ganapati Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 36	Comments on this keris Picit? Just got it from abroad today I can thumbprint whorls Attached Images

12th February 2022, 01:04 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I'm skeptical about fingerprint whorls. Layers of pamor might present as such, but look at your own thumbprint, compare how fine the print lines on your thumb are. Good close-up shots might help confirm.

12th February 2022, 02:20 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	This is an old blade, it is not likely that any actual impressions from finger print whorls would remain after a few acid cleanings, if any were present in the first place. Lets say, just for the sake of the exercise that this blade is somewhere between 100 & 150 years old, and it is likely older than that, how many times has it been acid cleaned during that period of time? How many times has it been forgotten for a few years, rust has built up, and the subsequent cleaning has removed both rust and any light indentations. Impossible to be certain from a photo, but to my eye, this blade presents as a very plain, very difficult to sell keris. Totally unsaleable on the local market in Jawa as a dress keris, and it would need a lot of "support" to find a buyer anywhere. The way that layering is lifting in the mid portion of the blade seems to indicate that this blade has been subjected to high heat long after it was first produced. Possibly localised heat, something like an oxy torch.

12th February 2022, 03:44 AM	#4
Ganapati Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 36	Yes it has fingerprint whorls I examined it closely...im across the country right now and can't post closeups but will It is a very, very old blade...been looking for a picit like this for a long time and finally found one. I have no desire to resell it..am happy to have it True pusaka!

12th February 2022, 03:51 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	May it bring you happiness.

12th February 2022, 04:12 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	GP, I'm very pleased that you have acquired a keris that brings you such a high degree of satisfaction, however, you have not acquired a keris pusaka. The way in which finger print whorls are applied to both old & more recent keris is by the method that in Jawa we know as the "batik" method, it is called this because the blade, or an area of the blade, is covered in wax, the finger tips are pushed into the wax when it is still warm, this leaves a print in the wax, if necessary, these finger imprints are improved with a needle when the wax has hardened. Once the finger prints or other design have been inscribed into the wax, the blade , or the localised area of the blade, is treated with acid, the finger print whorls that you can see are the result of acid etching. After the pattern has been etched into the blade, the wax is removed with boiling water and the blade is cleaned and stained. This topic of "batiking" a blade has probably been discussed previously on this forum, the practice is very well known to established collectors and students of the keris.

14th February 2022, 03:27 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Like Rick i am glad you are happy with this keris. Ultimately that is the most important thing, that our collections bring us satisfaction. But i do have many doubts about this particular keris and i don’t believe these picit markings were done with a human hand. I would also second Alan’s remark. A pusaka ceases to be a pusaka once the chain of kinship bond is broken. You cannot purchase a pusaka.