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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 311
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Recently I bought this keris chiefly for its quite unique pamor which is called 'Bonang renteng' (lit. curled thread). The warangka is obviously very new and the blade surface where the pamor is absent have the look and texture of fine sandpaper.
I have absolutely no doubt that the blade is also recently made and I'd guess within the last 5 years but the seller insisted that it is from tangguh mataram which i don't believe for a minute. for one thing I'd assume any keris from this tangguh would cost a bomb whereas mine cost almost nothing literally. So, I would appreciate if any experts here can let me know how can we determine if a blade is new or old? |
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#2 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
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Good question Green. I believe you are absolutely correct to assume that this is a very new creation all around. You have answered part of your own question. If the price is relative low you can be fairly sure you are not dealing with a real antique. And though there are, indeed, some old examples of complex pamors like thus Bonang variety, super complex pamors are far less likely on most truly old keris.
It is the style to add some "aging" to brand new keris in Jawa AFAIK. This is not necessarily done to deceive. It is just the way people like their keris to look even when they realize they are buying a brand new piece. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous dealers try to pass these along to unknowing collectors as old keris. There are some artificially aged pieces that have actually fooled experts, even upon close examination. It's hard to pass along tips to how to avoid getting fooled, especially if all you have to go on is a photo on the internet. Or at least to put it into words. There are certainly keris i have looked at on line that i can almost immediately say, yes, that is definitely a newly made aged piece. Often it is the way the wear has been applied, the evenness of the surface wear, etc. Sometimes it's just a matter of the type of iron used that just doesn't come across as old. Sometime the pamor doesn't look quite right for the supposed age of the keris. Of course, modern smiths have been know to use old keris to forge from so judging the materials can sometimes be deceptive. My best advice is to find a knowledgeable dealer or two that you truly trust to make most of your purchases from and understand that when you buy from other sources such as eBay auctions that it will always be a bit of a crap shoot. Hopeful others here can put their ideas about this into words better than i can. But the more keris you look at, both old and new, the more you come to an understanding on how to feel the difference out...at least sometimes... ![]() ![]() |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,854
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Everything David has written I endorse 100%.
Experience --- I mean a real lot of experience --- can help, but sometimes you just can't tell. I've got probably as much experience as it is possible for anybody living in a western society to get, I've been taught over extended periods by the most noted Surakarta keris experts of the late 20th century, I've collected and studied the keris for more than 60 years. I can still be wrong. Panembahan Harjonegoro was one of the most noted Javanese art authorities and keris experts of the 20th century. His ability to judge a good keris was second to none. He was also a well known mark for the Javanese Keris Mafia. Even he could be fooled. On more than one occasion I saw the man who was arguably the greatest Javanese keris expert of the 20th century keep a keris in his possession for several days before he would give an opinion on it. Occasionally we may be able to tell if something is old or recent from a photo. Mostly we cannot. In respect of the bonang serenteng keris shown here, from the photo I do not know with certainty if this keris is what we now call Kemardikan , ie, after Indonesia became an independent nation, or whether it dates from the early 20th century. Even if I handled it, I could still be in doubt. Based upon what can be seen in the photo it certainly looks very recent, and probably Madura- Sumenep, but I would need to strip it and examine under magnification before I would give a defensible opinion. In respect of the "Mataram" attribution. Well, strictly speaking, that was not a lie. Somewhat misleading perhaps, but not a lie. The two ruling Houses of Central Jawa are both branches of the House of Mataram. Strictly speaking, we are still in the Mataram era. There are a number of keris classifications that spread across the period from the second half of the 16th century until the present, and nobody ever uses the full name for these classifications, the "Mataram" part is always understood. Tangguh (classification) Senopaten is actually Mataram Senopaten, Sultan Agung, is actually Mataram Sultan Agung, and so on, right through Amangkurat, Kartosuro, Surakarta, Ngayogyakarta, then we have Tuban Mataram, Mataram Matesih, Madura Sepuh Mataram --- and there are an uncounted number of minor sub-divisions of "Mataram" . We can play pretty loose with "Mataram" if we feel so inclined. But all that said, this bonang is actually a pretty nice keris, only the mendak, and possibly the pendok are a bit less than decent. |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 311
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Many thanks David and A G Maisey for the explanation which confirm my hunch and guess. I'll put this under new and probably will replace the mendak with a better one someday.
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