Javanese Tempius, Pedang Tusuk scabbard design question

mross · 25th April 2006, 05:19 PM

I just recently acquired this from Alam Shah. Thanks.

I have a question on
the center part of the design. Any thoughts on why it is left plain? Alam, sent
me some urls' of others that share the same idea, so it seems to be a consistent pattern. So what are your thoughts?

PS The photos are from Alam. The can all be seen here;

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

nechesh · 25th April 2006, 05:30 PM

Quite possibly because that is the area of the sheath that would be up against the body under the belt?

Battara · 25th April 2006, 11:48 PM

I'm with Nechesh on this one. It would be in a belt or sash.

BluErf · 26th April 2006, 03:20 PM

It may have more significance than simply because it is the part that goes under the sash. In the Javanese context, they have textiles worn in the Courts which has dyed patterns at the peripheral of the cloth, but a central diamond-shaped portion is left white intentionally. It seemed to have the significance of representing protection against evil spirits or external elements which may harm the wearer.

If we look at the motifs on the sheath, we have vegetation, and in some other examples, animals and or mythical beasts. Sometimes there are mountains and clouds too. That would represent the world that the owner lived in - fraught with dangers and natural elements. The blank portion would seem to represent a safe sanctum against the outside world.

Perhaps fellow forumnites from Java can explain better.

mross · 27th April 2006, 05:32 PM

Both explainations sound plausabile. This a great forum for finding out this type
of information. This is a fun and informative place to hang out. Thanks to all.

nechesh · 28th April 2006, 02:00 PM

After talking with a few people i have reached a different conclusion that this may be more about pure stylistic influences and nothing more.
Beginning in the 1700`s European culture and style began to influence Javanese style and culture. European clothes and dress styles were adopted by the Javanese upper class and elites. You can see a good illustration of this in a mid-19th century lithograph reprinted in van Duuren's "The Kris" on page 60 which depicts a Madurese prince wearing a European military jacket and tri-corner hat a part of his royal dress.
Weapons were no exception to this influence from the West. The typical European scabbard for a sword, as seen by the Javanese, had a metal chape and locket, with the central part of the scabbard smooth wood, or wood covered with leather. The Javanese copied European blade styles, and European scabbards, and many examples of Javanese swords can be found where the sword is a direct copy of a European sword, or is a mix of both European and Javanese styles, perhaps with a Javanese style blade housed in a European style scabbard.
Later, when Javanese scabbards began to be made of metal, the appearance of the old style scabbard with metal chape and locket, and smooth central section, was imitated.
So there is one other explanation you can add to the possible reasons for these motifs.

BluErf · 30th April 2006, 03:06 AM

Oh, that is indeed an interesting but plausible way of looking at it!

There is one example of a pedang which has the blank space on its silver oversheath enclosed even on the vertical sides by motifs. I'll see if I can get pictures. That would make an interesting comparison.

25th April 2006, 05:19 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Javanese Tempius, Pedang Tusuk scabbard design question I just recently acquired this from Alam Shah. Thanks. I have a question on the center part of the design. Any thoughts on why it is left plain? Alam, sent me some urls' of others that share the same idea, so it seems to be a consistent pattern. So what are your thoughts? PS The photos are from Alam. The can all be seen here; http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Attached Images Last edited by mross; 25th April 2006 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Added credits on photos

25th April 2006, 05:30 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Quite possibly because that is the area of the sheath that would be up against the body under the belt?

25th April 2006, 11:48 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I'm with Nechesh on this one. It would be in a belt or sash.

26th April 2006, 03:20 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	It may have more significance than simply because it is the part that goes under the sash. In the Javanese context, they have textiles worn in the Courts which has dyed patterns at the peripheral of the cloth, but a central diamond-shaped portion is left white intentionally. It seemed to have the significance of representing protection against evil spirits or external elements which may harm the wearer. If we look at the motifs on the sheath, we have vegetation, and in some other examples, animals and or mythical beasts. Sometimes there are mountains and clouds too. That would represent the world that the owner lived in - fraught with dangers and natural elements. The blank portion would seem to represent a safe sanctum against the outside world. Perhaps fellow forumnites from Java can explain better.

27th April 2006, 05:32 PM	#5
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Both explainations sound plausabile. This a great forum for finding out this type of information. This is a fun and informative place to hang out. Thanks to all.

28th April 2006, 02:00 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	After talking with a few people i have reached a different conclusion that this may be more about pure stylistic influences and nothing more. Beginning in the 1700`s European culture and style began to influence Javanese style and culture. European clothes and dress styles were adopted by the Javanese upper class and elites. You can see a good illustration of this in a mid-19th century lithograph reprinted in van Duuren's "The Kris" on page 60 which depicts a Madurese prince wearing a European military jacket and tri-corner hat a part of his royal dress. Weapons were no exception to this influence from the West. The typical European scabbard for a sword, as seen by the Javanese, had a metal chape and locket, with the central part of the scabbard smooth wood, or wood covered with leather. The Javanese copied European blade styles, and European scabbards, and many examples of Javanese swords can be found where the sword is a direct copy of a European sword, or is a mix of both European and Javanese styles, perhaps with a Javanese style blade housed in a European style scabbard. Later, when Javanese scabbards began to be made of metal, the appearance of the old style scabbard with metal chape and locket, and smooth central section, was imitated. So there is one other explanation you can add to the possible reasons for these motifs.

30th April 2006, 03:06 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oh, that is indeed an interesting but plausible way of looking at it! There is one example of a pedang which has the blank space on its silver oversheath enclosed even on the vertical sides by motifs. I'll see if I can get pictures. That would make an interesting comparison.