Panjang for discussion

[VVV]

Just discovered this new sub-forum.

I would appreciate your feedback on this Panjang

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Do you think it is from Malaysia or the Sumatran neigbouring coast?
Why is it so rare to see Jawa Demam on Panjang Keris?
What do you think about the greneng of this Keris.

Michael

[kai]

That's a nice one, Michael!

I think those "square holes" could be a variation of the classical ron da since one basal corner of them seems to be rounded.

I can't remember seeing ricikan flush with the blade profile in Keris Panjang before. (Usually the greneng protrude from the blade profile like in Keris Bali.)

Regards,
Kai

[BluErf]

Typically, we only see tapak kuda hilts on keris panjangs in old photos. Jawa demam hilts on panjangs were very uncommon. I'm not sure if they were put on panjang blades by later dealers or collectors.

One way to look at it is by seeing how a keris panjang is used. The panjang is held with the tip towards the ground, with the fore finger and thumb gripping the bent 'head' of the tapak kuda hilt, and the remaining 3 fingers wrapped round the shaft of the hilt. A jawa demam hilt may be less ergonomic when gripped this way because it was designed for a grip where the thumb and fore finger gripped the picetan of the keris. Of course, there is no stopping a person from gripping a jawa demam hilt placed on a panjang as if it were a tapak kuda hilt, except maybe it would be less comfortable.

The sheath form is simply mindblowing! The maker had great 'air tangan' (literally "hand water", or grasp of flowing aesthetics), and the silver oversheaths are very fine too - notice how confidently the thin but swirling tendrils are executed.

The blade looks like a panjang to me. Bahari refers to the same blade form, but typically less than 12 inches long. 12-16inches would fall into the anak alang range, and anything more than 16 inches would be a panjang in my opinion (though some people would say 18 inches).

I have no hard basis of judging the origin of this panjang, but I would say the hilt is Sumatran, and so is the motif on the silver oversheath. Actually, the hilt looks Minang to me, which could put the keris in Central Sumatra. The blade itself looks more Sumatran than Malay too. Probably a Sumatran panjang, though not sure whether it's North, Central or South.

[VVV]

Thanks for your feedback,
I agree with BluErf and I haven't either seen any old picture of a Panjang with a Jawa Demam hilt. But I have seen them on Bahari and Anak Alang.
Actually this one, and my other Panjang with a Jawa Demam,
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php
are the only ones I have ever seen. But I doubt in these two cases that the dealers, or former collectors, has changed the hilts on those later. This Panjang f.i. comes from the C de Wel collection, who according to my opinion has the best Keris published in the Tammens' trilogy.
I get the feeling that this Keris was more made as a status symbol than actually for use in executions? And probably for someone with his own taste judging by the Greneng?
But that's just my speculations...

I also agree with BluErf's conclusions that the Tapak Kuda is a much more practical hilt for a Keris Penyalang than the Jawa Demam.

Have you noticed that the profile of the blade is slightly arching?

Michael

[BluErf]

Yes, panjangs are symbols of authority. Whether they have been used or not is probably secondary to what they represented. It's probably the equivalent of the ceremonial mace used in some European parliament.

I've seen one arching panjang at Adni's a long while back. Cannot remember if that was Malay or Sumatran in origin though.

The greneng is unusual, but its difficult to tell if it's a legitimate style, or a special commission.

[VVV]

Thanks BluErf,

I am not 100% sure but I somehow remember to have read somewhere that the slightly arching blade was a Malay phenomena?
That's why I brought up Malaysia as a possibility of origin.

Michael

[rahman]

The shape of the sampir somehow tells me it is Minangkabau, as do the carved and tall Jawa Demam hilt. The pucuk rebong motif on the silverworks is quite distinctively Malay. But Malay pieces usually have tapak kuda, and especially with the tampuk manggis design.

The blade itself has a pinggang (waist), an almost imperceptible tapering just above the sor-soran. And most panjangs don't have any pamor.

Interesting fusion in all. I'd go for Negri Sembilan which has strong Minang influence.

[VVV]

Thanks Rahman,

That's an interesting conclusion.
Does anyone have a link to Keris from Negri Sembilan?
Do they usually resemble Minangkabau Keris?

Michael

[BluErf]

Negri Sembilan is part of Malaysia, but it is distinctively populated by Minang Kabau people. They migrated across the Melaka straits, from Sumatra to Malaysia.

[VVV]

Thanks BluErf,

But have they developed new kind of Keris after the migration or have they kept the "Minangkabau look" to their Keris?

Michael

[BluErf]

That's a good question. I've not been to Negri Sembilan myself, so I am not sure if they have retained their Minang keris forms.

But an interesting point to note is that Minang kerises are so varied that it is hard to point to an 'archetype'. Every Minang village has their own slightly different dress and hilt. This applies to the people's headdress and dressing as well. It's a kind of unique communal identity. So I would not be surprised if the Negri Sembilan Minang people have their own special form of keris dress.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Typically, we only see tapak kuda hilts on keris panjangs in old photos. Jawa demam hilts on panjangs were very uncommon. I'm not sure if they were put on panjang blades by later dealers or collectors.

One way to look at it is by seeing how a keris panjang is used. The panjang is held with the tip towards the ground, with the fore finger and thumb gripping the bent 'head' of the tapak kuda hilt, and the remaining 3 fingers wrapped round the shaft of the hilt. A jawa demam hilt may be less ergonomic when gripped this way because it was designed for a grip where the thumb and fore finger gripped the picetan of the keris. Of course, there is no stopping a person from gripping a jawa demam hilt placed on a panjang as if it were a tapak kuda hilt, except maybe it would be less comfortable.

The sheath form is simply mindblowing! The maker had great 'air tangan' (literally "hand water", or grasp of flowing aesthetics), and the silver oversheaths are very fine too - notice how confidently the thin but swirling tendrils are executed.

The blade looks like a panjang to me. Bahari refers to the same blade form, but typically less than 12 inches long. 12-16inches would fall into the anak alang range, and anything more than 16 inches would be a panjang in my opinion (though some people would say 18 inches).

I have no hard basis of judging the origin of this panjang, but I would say the hilt is Sumatran, and so is the motif on the silver oversheath. Actually, the hilt looks Minang to me, which could put the keris in Central Sumatra. The blade itself looks more Sumatran than Malay too. Probably a Sumatran panjang, though not sure whether it's North, Central or South.

Whilst studying a couple of keris I have decided to keep I came across this posting.
For those of you who know this collection I have here, it has great provenance and has remained untouched for over 100 years give or take a few years and I believe it was collected on the ground in Sumatra in the 1880/90s and most likely with some local knowledge as there are some rarities in the collection where at first glance in their previous life this would not be noticed.
One Panjang shows the Jawa demam hilt so I think it can be said looking at the consistancy in timber patterns and patina I would suggest that they are for the most part a true marriage and not put togethers, at least these pieces.
Further to this I note the Keris with the Tapak Kuda hilt is one of those borderline mysteries, it has a 17inch blade but prior to measuring it, Michael and Kai have noted, at first glance it appears to be a Anak Alang, but within the scope presented here it could be a Panjang but can still be called a long Anak Alang.
Some images for consideration and a big thank you to Michael and Kai and I am sure both know I am a convert to the beauty, effectivness and quality of these Sumatran weapons.
I look forward to any comments or details that may be relevant since the topic is about 4 years old now and I am sure more mysteries have been solved over this time.

Gav

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Further to this I note the Keris with the Tapak Kuda hilt is one of those borderline mysteries, it has a 17inch blade but prior to measuring it, Michael and Kai have noted, at first glance it appears to be a Anak Alang, but within the scope presented here it could be a Panjang but can still be called a long Anak Alang.

The 1st piece you posted, (with the jawa demam hilt) looks more of a Riau origin while the next piece with the blackish hilt, looks more Northern Peninsular (Kelantan) to me.. based on blade form, blade base features and fittings..

[BluErf]

Agree totally with assessment.

For the Riau panjang, I thought the sampir was better made compared to the hilt (the hilt looks more awkward compared to the flowing lines of the sheath). The rough finishing on the hilt does not allow me to clearly see the grain that appears on the sampir, so not sure it is made from the same piece of wood or tree, or even if it was made by the same craftsman.

The pendoko is unusual, I thought. Not sure what to make of it yet. It fits the hilt nicely for sure, but the form/motif is less common.

[Gavin Nugent]

Great input, thanks guys, me I have no specific knowledge of these items so I must take you word and learn the finer details of these pieces I am interested in and am enjoying the learning process.

It is not impossible that these pieces were collected from the regions you note as the original owner of the collection was well travelled. All I know is the pieces have been together and untouched for a very very long time and the collection is that of Northern Sumatra where the owner spent a lot of time.

Being a man of great vision who had an appreciation for ancient arts, his appreciation can can be seen when considering the rarity and variety in the collection such as the Panjang/Jawa marriage and other non Keris examples like an Akar Bahar hilt, Rhino hilt, wootz blade, an undocumented hilt style, scabbard differences and such things and some small gold inlay. Whether with help on the ground or by his own keen eye this was collected remains unknown, there are many unusual and unexplained facets as a whole and despite not dripping with gold or ivory it is an important grouping.

As the Panjang in general is noted as being of status and this hilt marriage rare, how would one deduct a reasonable theory behind its coming to be?
Perhaps bought or given to him by colleagues whilst the collection was being put together?
Through what other means such as trade or marriage could these pieces be found in the Northern Sumatran region?
What other provenanced or documented examples are there like these items?

Thanks in advance for a wonderful discussion.

Gav

[VVV]

I noticed that the original reference picture are lost so I have reposted them below.
On the Panjang-hilt of Gav, doesn't it resemble more the northern Peninsular style of JD?

Michael

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by VVV

I noticed that the original reference picture are lost so I have reposted them below.
On the Panjang-hilt of Gav, doesn't it resemble more the northern Peninsular style of JD?

Michael

Thank you Michael, it is a super example you have there.

With the reference to the JD resembling Northern Sumatra, is it the high dorsal peak that denotes this, the oversized JD head or both...or perhaps neither???

To my novice Keris eye the shorter piece presented, the hilt seems to be "of a" style "in profile only" of those presented in Zonneveld....

Gav

[BluErf]

Hi Michael,

It's good to hear from you and see pictures of your beautiful keris again.

Yes, the hilt does have some features which suggest a N Malayan origin, like the sharper beak and the more prominent garuda mungkur, but the overall style of the hilt does not seem consistent with a N Malayan hilt.

The rest of the keris - the sampir (the top part of the sheath), the tekak lipas (the style of the 'chape' at the end of the sheath stem) and the blade - also looks more Riau.

Posting a Pattani JD, a Riau JD, and a rotated picture of the 1st panjang's JD for comparison.

[VVV]

Hi Kai Wee,

Long time and good to hear from you too.
I have been quite busy lately with non-keris-related matters.
Thanks for the pictures which clarifies the difference.

Michael