Strange Keris blade or???

VVV · 30th September 2006, 05:40 PM

I found this small, Keris resembling, blade so I bought it to find out what it could be. According to the seller it was found close to Palembang but he didn't know what it is. It's quite small - 26 cm/around 10 inch overall.
The hilt is horn.
Do you know what it is?

Michael

Ian · 30th September 2006, 06:52 PM

Do you think the horn hilt might be rhino?

Ian.

Henk · 30th September 2006, 07:29 PM

I've seen curved keris before. Rather unusual, I think. A friend of my owns one with luk and I've seen by a fellow collector a straight one. Both of these keris where curved like a Jambiya. Yours is only curved at the end of the blade. Very nice find and if I rembered well the region where these keris came from was arround Palembang indeed. The sheath is a scandinavian one I think. More Puukko like. The sheath for both keris I've seen was a curved walikat sandang.

VVV · 1st October 2006, 10:42 AM

Ian,

I am not sure on which kind of horn it is so I have enclosed two additional pictures of the hilt.

Henk,

I think you are correct that the sheath isn't original after having a closer look at it. I am not so much into either Scandinavian Sami knives or Finnish Puukko (the grass is always greener...) but don't they usually have thicker leather for their sheaths?
My only reference on that is the ones being sold in the souvenir shops in Stockholm's Old Town.
I also forgot to mention that this blade of course have Pamor.

Michael

Lew · 1st October 2006, 02:00 PM

Hi Guys

The hilt is not rhino it's most likely some type of buffalo horn. The dagger reminds me of the Beja daggers of Africa.

Lew

VVV · 1st October 2006, 02:18 PM

Thanks Lew,

For what do they use the Beja daggers in Africa?

Michael

Lew · 1st October 2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Thanks Lew,

For what do they use the Beja daggers in Africa?

Michael

VVV

Here are a few pics. The warrior has one in his belt/sash. They are weapons of war and my guess also a status symbol much like the Arab jambiya.

Henk · 1st October 2006, 03:57 PM

Michael,

I think Lew is right about the buffalo horn for the ukiran.

About the leather of scandinavian knives, you're right, thick leather is used. I cann't see how thick the leather is on the picture, but I looked at the shape of the scabbard.

VVV · 1st October 2006, 04:20 PM

Thanks for the nice pictures Lew.

Henk, the leather of this sheath is quite thin.
But I see now that it's not visible for you on my picture.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 1st October 2006, 11:40 PM

On the leather used in puuko sheaths.

Yeah, modern commercial puukos use reasonably heavy leather, however the leather in antique puuko sheaths is really quite thin.

A lot of puukos use a liner of fibre , or in the old sheaths of wood ,and then the outside leather is sewn wet around the liner and shunk on.

When I was doing a lot of knife making, I made a lot of puuko blades of various patterns, and to turn them into knives I was working with bloke who used to spend summers in ---I think---Norway. Anyway, when he was there he lived in a rural area with traditional knifemaker, who had taught him the full craft. The blades were as rough as guts---they worked well and held an edge well, but the finish was not good.

However, the sheaths and handles were real works of art. The leather that was used in the sheaths was really very thin. It was some sort of a semi-cured leather, not tanned like normal leather. The sheaths he made when he was in Australia used a different type of leather, but it was still very thin, and I think I remember him telling me that there was only one small tannery where he could buy it. I think it was a traditional bark tan.

Many old puukos used metal sheaths, and I have one very old village made puuko that has a sheath of horn.

David · 2nd October 2006, 02:30 AM

Alan, thanks for the comments on puuko sheaths. Does it seem likely to you that this sheath was originally intended for one?
Also, what do you think this blade is? It is definitely keris like, but i have neveer seen one like it before.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd October 2006, 06:28 AM

No, sorry, that sheath does not look even the tiniest bit like any puuko sheath that I have ever seen. Shape is 100% different, construction is different. To me this sheath just looks like something that was sewn together in Europe to cover the blade.

As for the knife itself, I`d sooner not comment.
It is not a keris, I can say that much, but what it might be, I do not know.

Sommelier · 11th October 2006, 03:09 PM

I've found this knife at
http://www.collecteez.com/

with the following comment:

CORVO KNIFE

Chile , 1971, made by Famas - a governmental manufacturer, overall length (up to the center of the arch) 12" (31cm).

The Corvo is a unique dagger/knife which represents a national symbol in Chile . In its shape it imitates the work-tool of mine workers, and also the claws of the Andes' bear. There are two basic kinds of Corvo, one that which very bent and one which is less. The very bent kind is bent in almost 90° and is issued for the commando forces. A regular commando Corvo is black and has a plastic handle with plain leather sheath.

It looks like the above posted "keris", especially the scabbard.

Rick · 11th October 2006, 04:20 PM

Corvos never have pamor; could we see a well lit photo of the subject blade's pamor ?

30th September 2006, 05:40 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Strange Keris blade or??? I found this small, Keris resembling, blade so I bought it to find out what it could be. According to the seller it was found close to Palembang but he didn't know what it is. It's quite small - 26 cm/around 10 inch overall. The hilt is horn. Do you know what it is? Michael Attached Images

1st October 2006, 10:42 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Ian, I am not sure on which kind of horn it is so I have enclosed two additional pictures of the hilt. Henk, I think you are correct that the sheath isn't original after having a closer look at it. I am not so much into either Scandinavian Sami knives or Finnish Puukko (the grass is always greener...) but don't they usually have thicker leather for their sheaths? My only reference on that is the ones being sold in the souvenir shops in Stockholm's Old Town. I also forgot to mention that this blade of course have Pamor. Michael Attached Images

11th October 2006, 03:09 PM	#13
Sommelier Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minsk, Byelorussia Posts: 18	I've found this knife at http://www.collecteez.com/ with the following comment: CORVO KNIFE Chile , 1971, made by Famas - a governmental manufacturer, overall length (up to the center of the arch) 12" (31cm). The Corvo is a unique dagger/knife which represents a national symbol in Chile . In its shape it imitates the work-tool of mine workers, and also the claws of the Andes' bear. There are two basic kinds of Corvo, one that which very bent and one which is less. The very bent kind is bent in almost 90° and is issued for the commando forces. A regular commando Corvo is black and has a plastic handle with plain leather sheath. It looks like the above posted "keris", especially the scabbard. Attached Images

30th September 2006, 06:52 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Do you think the horn hilt might be rhino? Ian.

30th September 2006, 07:29 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I've seen curved keris before. Rather unusual, I think. A friend of my owns one with luk and I've seen by a fellow collector a straight one. Both of these keris where curved like a Jambiya. Yours is only curved at the end of the blade. Very nice find and if I rembered well the region where these keris came from was arround Palembang indeed. The sheath is a scandinavian one I think. More Puukko like. The sheath for both keris I've seen was a curved walikat sandang.

1st October 2006, 02:00 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Guys The hilt is not rhino it's most likely some type of buffalo horn. The dagger reminds me of the Beja daggers of Africa. Lew

1st October 2006, 02:18 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Lew, For what do they use the Beja daggers in Africa? Michael

1st October 2006, 03:57 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Michael, I think Lew is right about the buffalo horn for the ukiran. About the leather of scandinavian knives, you're right, thick leather is used. I cann't see how thick the leather is on the picture, but I looked at the shape of the scabbard.

1st October 2006, 04:20 PM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the nice pictures Lew. Henk, the leather of this sheath is quite thin. But I see now that it's not visible for you on my picture. Michael

1st October 2006, 11:40 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	On the leather used in puuko sheaths. Yeah, modern commercial puukos use reasonably heavy leather, however the leather in antique puuko sheaths is really quite thin. A lot of puukos use a liner of fibre , or in the old sheaths of wood ,and then the outside leather is sewn wet around the liner and shunk on. When I was doing a lot of knife making, I made a lot of puuko blades of various patterns, and to turn them into knives I was working with bloke who used to spend summers in ---I think---Norway. Anyway, when he was there he lived in a rural area with traditional knifemaker, who had taught him the full craft. The blades were as rough as guts---they worked well and held an edge well, but the finish was not good. However, the sheaths and handles were real works of art. The leather that was used in the sheaths was really very thin. It was some sort of a semi-cured leather, not tanned like normal leather. The sheaths he made when he was in Australia used a different type of leather, but it was still very thin, and I think I remember him telling me that there was only one small tannery where he could buy it. I think it was a traditional bark tan. Many old puukos used metal sheaths, and I have one very old village made puuko that has a sheath of horn.

2nd October 2006, 02:30 AM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Alan, thanks for the comments on puuko sheaths. Does it seem likely to you that this sheath was originally intended for one? Also, what do you think this blade is? It is definitely keris like, but i have neveer seen one like it before.

2nd October 2006, 06:28 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	No, sorry, that sheath does not look even the tiniest bit like any puuko sheath that I have ever seen. Shape is 100% different, construction is different. To me this sheath just looks like something that was sewn together in Europe to cover the blade. As for the knife itself, I`d sooner not comment. It is not a keris, I can say that much, but what it might be, I do not know.

11th October 2006, 04:20 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Corvos never have pamor; could we see a well lit photo of the subject blade's pamor ?