Keris - for Tourists?

Klaus Albrecht · 17th January 2005, 08:39 PM

Hi All,

I'm new here and its my first posting, sorry about my bad englisch, i'm from austria and german is my motherspoken.
a few weeks ago i got an keris from a, now died man. he was 35 years ago on an world trip and bring some things back, and this keris. the fitting look like tourist-made, but i don't know, if the blade is old or not. it was very rusty, but i clean it a little bit with soft acid.
perhaps anyone can help me to determine the age of the blade?
The blade has at the side a long crack, and the surface looks rough, and i see crystalline things on it like forged.
thanks a lot for help
klaus

pic1 all
pic2 the surface
pic3 detail
pic4 the crack

eli · 17th January 2005, 09:03 PM

I had a tombak in Borneo (Kalimantan) style of tourist dress. I think your Keris as well in this style.

nechesh · 17th January 2005, 09:09 PM

Hi Klaus, willkommen. The dress is typical of a touristy variety common to Borneo. A rather elaborate version of this even made it into Frey's "The Kris", Fig. 27. Whether nicer versions of this form were ever made for indigenous use i do not know. The blade genuine and has some age to it. There is much blade erosion and damage, so it would be hard to place this blade in period or original quality, though i suspect it was a fairly average village made keris, probably from Jawa.

Klaus Albrecht · 17th January 2005, 09:46 PM

Hello,

thanks a lot for your answers. a short time ago i got an mail from an man, who i ask for this keris, what do you mean:

"The fittings of the keris is rather odd, and is surely not originally a type for keris and is newly made to look rather "authentic". With the teeth and painting decorations, it resembles more of a dayak's sword or mandau, which is more commonly seen in Borneo.
The blade is a more good older piece, with very Javanese looking features. The patterns on the blade or pamor is of the scattered rice variations, and from the picture I can judge that it can be about early 19th to late 18th century."

greetings from austria
klaus

Henk · 18th January 2005, 06:47 PM

Herzlich wilkommen, Klaus.

Nechesh is right. The blade is probably javanese. Not uncommon for this type of keris. Also balinese blades were used for these keris.
The dress is refered to as Borneo and probably the new ones for the tourists will come from Borneo, but this dresstype is also used for mandaus. This dress is typical for Irian Jiya, former Dutch West New Guinea.

The authentic keris and mandau from that area had the same dress and painting style. Only paint made from natural materials was used and the result was not so bright and shiny as this one. The blades were imported from Indonesia so therefore you can see them with balinese or javanese blades. And of course the blades weren't treated at all. Thats why these keris are always so terrible rusty.

What you have here Klaus is a new keris from Irian Jiya, made for export or if you like for tourists but made in the traditional way.

Naga Sasra · 18th January 2005, 09:48 PM

Hi fellow forum members,
I have attached photos of a piece in my collection which I know arrived in Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while it does fit the description from Henk as being authentic mandau, I have over the years been looking for any evidence (drawings or photos) of this keris actually being used, perhaps one of the members have the proof I seek.

Frankly, I have considered this piece to be an early tourist keris, but then again in the early 20th century, I for one would not like to be a tourist in Irian Jiya.

Naga Basuki · 18th January 2005, 11:54 PM

I got one of these also, more like the first keris than Eric's. I thought that it was a made-for-tourist joke, but I showed it to a guy who knows keris and he said that he thought mine was a legitimate keris that had been "customized" by a Batak or Dyak. The colors on my paint are a bit more faded, but it does have the boar's teeth and hair.

My wife loves it and has it hanging in the kitchen.

Rick · 19th January 2005, 01:21 AM

Do you think that the wrongko has been re-carved ?

Naga Sasra · 19th January 2005, 05:44 AM

Hi Rick,
I do not believe the wrongko has been re-carved, everything on the piece is consistant with the arrival date to Scandinavia.

I have not re-touched it in any way, all I did when I got it back in the sixties was to clean the blade (which was rather rusty) and preserve it, everything else I left alone.

The gandar have old repairs, it was broken in two places in the middle and a part of the top is missing, but I do think it is original despite the early repairs.

Best Regards, Naga Sasra

Rick · 20th January 2005, 09:35 PM

I noticed that the wrongko of Klaus' example appears to be re-carved .
I wonder what esteem the Dyaks held for these keris , symbolic , or just a dagger ?

Henk · 20th January 2005, 10:05 PM

Naga Sasra,

This is more what I mean. The colors of your keris are not so shiny and the crochet ornaments are typical too for this keris.
This type of keris is present in the national museum of ethnology in Leiden, Holland. The paint however is much more faded. If this one arrived in the early 20th century in Scandinavia it is very well preserved and certainly not a tourist item. Also the keris itself looks to be in a good condition.

Naga Basuki, I would like to see some pictures of your keris. Please post them, so that we can have a look.

Rick, these kerisses don't come from the dayak but from the papoea of Irian Jaya. I think that they considered the blade as just a dagger. How these tribes thought about these items, I must admit that I don't know. But they were very primitive, so I think they didn't apreciate keris the way keris should be apreciated. On the other hand they were also familiar with the mandau so there could be some trade with the dayak. But it is more likely that some papoea's lost their head during these meetings.

Rick · 20th January 2005, 10:50 PM

Thanks Henk .
I wonder if these old indonesian keris may have been used in trading with the Papoea .

Henk · 21st January 2005, 03:38 PM

That's a good question. We have several options. It is possible that during a hunting party the hunters lost something too

. Trading is also a good posibility because the blades are mostly javanese. Sumatra was known for trading throughout the archipello. And javanese blades were highly apreciated on Sumatra. So there was delivery of javanese blades to Sumatra. These blades were used and mounted as Sumatra keris and I can imagine that the surplus was used for trading.

Just some opinions, because i don't know the answer either.

Klaus Albrecht · 21st January 2005, 09:53 PM

Thanks for all informations

klaus

17th January 2005, 08:39 PM	#1
Klaus Albrecht Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 8	Keris - for Tourists? Hi All, I'm new here and its my first posting, sorry about my bad englisch, i'm from austria and german is my motherspoken. a few weeks ago i got an keris from a, now died man. he was 35 years ago on an world trip and bring some things back, and this keris. the fitting look like tourist-made, but i don't know, if the blade is old or not. it was very rusty, but i clean it a little bit with soft acid. perhaps anyone can help me to determine the age of the blade? The blade has at the side a long crack, and the surface looks rough, and i see crystalline things on it like forged. thanks a lot for help klaus pic1 all pic2 the surface pic3 detail pic4 the crack Attached Images

18th January 2005, 09:48 PM	#6
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Hi fellow forum members, I have attached photos of a piece in my collection which I know arrived in Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while it does fit the description from Henk as being authentic mandau, I have over the years been looking for any evidence (drawings or photos) of this keris actually being used, perhaps one of the members have the proof I seek. Frankly, I have considered this piece to be an early tourist keris, but then again in the early 20th century, I for one would not like to be a tourist in Irian Jiya. Attached Images

19th January 2005, 01:21 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Naga Sasra Do you think that the wrongko has been re-carved ?

17th January 2005, 09:03 PM	#2
eli Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon US Posts: 21	I had a tombak in Borneo (Kalimantan) style of tourist dress. I think your Keris as well in this style.

17th January 2005, 09:09 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Klaus, willkommen. The dress is typical of a touristy variety common to Borneo. A rather elaborate version of this even made it into Frey's "The Kris", Fig. 27. Whether nicer versions of this form were ever made for indigenous use i do not know. The blade genuine and has some age to it. There is much blade erosion and damage, so it would be hard to place this blade in period or original quality, though i suspect it was a fairly average village made keris, probably from Jawa.

17th January 2005, 09:46 PM	#4
Klaus Albrecht Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 8	Hello, thanks a lot for your answers. a short time ago i got an mail from an man, who i ask for this keris, what do you mean: "The fittings of the keris is rather odd, and is surely not originally a type for keris and is newly made to look rather "authentic". With the teeth and painting decorations, it resembles more of a dayak's sword or mandau, which is more commonly seen in Borneo. The blade is a more good older piece, with very Javanese looking features. The patterns on the blade or pamor is of the scattered rice variations, and from the picture I can judge that it can be about early 19th to late 18th century." greetings from austria klaus

18th January 2005, 06:47 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Herzlich wilkommen, Klaus. Nechesh is right. The blade is probably javanese. Not uncommon for this type of keris. Also balinese blades were used for these keris. The dress is refered to as Borneo and probably the new ones for the tourists will come from Borneo, but this dresstype is also used for mandaus. This dress is typical for Irian Jiya, former Dutch West New Guinea. The authentic keris and mandau from that area had the same dress and painting style. Only paint made from natural materials was used and the result was not so bright and shiny as this one. The blades were imported from Indonesia so therefore you can see them with balinese or javanese blades. And of course the blades weren't treated at all. Thats why these keris are always so terrible rusty. What you have here Klaus is a new keris from Irian Jiya, made for export or if you like for tourists but made in the traditional way.

18th January 2005, 11:54 PM	#7
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	I got one of these also, more like the first keris than Eric's. I thought that it was a made-for-tourist joke, but I showed it to a guy who knows keris and he said that he thought mine was a legitimate keris that had been "customized" by a Batak or Dyak. The colors on my paint are a bit more faded, but it does have the boar's teeth and hair. My wife loves it and has it hanging in the kitchen.

19th January 2005, 05:44 AM	#9
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Hi Rick, I do not believe the wrongko has been re-carved, everything on the piece is consistant with the arrival date to Scandinavia. I have not re-touched it in any way, all I did when I got it back in the sixties was to clean the blade (which was rather rusty) and preserve it, everything else I left alone. The gandar have old repairs, it was broken in two places in the middle and a part of the top is missing, but I do think it is original despite the early repairs. Best Regards, Naga Sasra

20th January 2005, 09:35 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I noticed that the wrongko of Klaus' example appears to be re-carved . I wonder what esteem the Dyaks held for these keris , symbolic , or just a dagger ?

20th January 2005, 10:05 PM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Naga Sasra, This is more what I mean. The colors of your keris are not so shiny and the crochet ornaments are typical too for this keris. This type of keris is present in the national museum of ethnology in Leiden, Holland. The paint however is much more faded. If this one arrived in the early 20th century in Scandinavia it is very well preserved and certainly not a tourist item. Also the keris itself looks to be in a good condition. Naga Basuki, I would like to see some pictures of your keris. Please post them, so that we can have a look. Rick, these kerisses don't come from the dayak but from the papoea of Irian Jaya. I think that they considered the blade as just a dagger. How these tribes thought about these items, I must admit that I don't know. But they were very primitive, so I think they didn't apreciate keris the way keris should be apreciated. On the other hand they were also familiar with the mandau so there could be some trade with the dayak. But it is more likely that some papoea's lost their head during these meetings.

20th January 2005, 10:50 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Thanks Henk . I wonder if these old indonesian keris may have been used in trading with the Papoea .

21st January 2005, 03:38 PM	#13
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	That's a good question. We have several options. It is possible that during a hunting party the hunters lost something too . Trading is also a good posibility because the blades are mostly javanese. Sumatra was known for trading throughout the archipello. And javanese blades were highly apreciated on Sumatra. So there was delivery of javanese blades to Sumatra. These blades were used and mounted as Sumatra keris and I can imagine that the surplus was used for trading. Just some opinions, because i don't know the answer either.

21st January 2005, 09:53 PM	#14
Klaus Albrecht Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 8	Thanks for all informations klaus