![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
This small, SENSATIONAL PIECE OF EARLIEST FIREARMS ACCOUTERMENT, completely unknown to historic weaponry so far, has been in my collection since the 1990's, when I bought it from someone in South Tyrol who had discovered it when restoring a house the walls and roof of which dated back into the 13th century! The arrow was found, together with some crossbow bolts (quarrels) retaining their original hafts, a lot of torn garments and other extremely early objects that had obviously been stuffed in the false ceiling (German: Fehlboden) of a 16th century beamed ceiling (Balkendecke)!!!
Imagine! The arrow almost exactly corresponds to the only known early 14th century source of ilustration, an illuminated manuscript by Walter de Milemete. Here is the Wikipedia information: Walter de Milemete was an English scholar[1] who wrote a treatise on Kingship for the young prince Edward, later king Edward III of England called De nobilitatibus, sapientiis, et prudentiis regum in 1326.[2] The Treatise includes images of siege weapons and what is probably the first[3] illustration of a firearm: a pot-de-fer.[4] One of the marginal border illustrations in the Milemete Treatise shows a soldier firing a large vase-shaped cannon, the arrow-shaped projectile is seen projecting from the cannon which is pointed at a fortification.[5] In the 1331 siege of Cividale, German knights used guns which were probably very similar to Milemete weapons. Generally, this manuscript is dated 1326-7. See top attachments! The arrow comprises a detachable pointed wrought iron head with four clasps; these clasps encircle a blackish and extremely fragile (!) incendiary mass, retaining pieces of burlap sacking and what seems to be the remainder of a piece of slow mass made of hemp. The heads of most Gothic crossbow bolts are easily detachable as well. The round haft is of oak, and nailed to its rear section are two fletchings made of thin and fragile hammered iron (now damaged and incomplete). They are made and fixed to the haft in almost the same manner as on the very few original gun arrows known to have survived, and preserved in the collections of Burg Eltz and the Imperial Castle (Kaiserburg) Nürnberg. Sadly, the latter is misidentified as an arrow for a wall crossbow, together with which it is on display. Please note that all these known gun arrows feature the 'usual' plain and pointed iron heads shaped exactly like those on Gothic and early Renaissance crossbow bolts/quarrels. Not one single incendiary gun arrow, except for this piece in my collection. The rear end of the haft retains a remainder of a hemp binding, obviously made to enable a tight fit in the barrel over this relatively short length and seal the exploding gas as hermetically as possible. On the blunt end, a thin iron plate is nailed to prevent the woode from being damaged when the gun went offf and the powder exploded as quickly expanding gas. The other, plain gun arrows also are fiited with such an iron plate. I will add the measurements as soon as I feel courageous enough to handle that extremely fragile little sensation, and will then also give its weight. I guess the overall length is about 60 cm. Please also confer my threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=burg+eltz http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=arrows Go to page 7, post 187ff! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=arrow http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...alter+milemete http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...alter+milemete http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...alter+milemete Best, Michael Attachments, from top: - the 'de Milemete ms': De nobilitatibus, sapientiis, et prudentiis regum, 1326-7, Christ Church Oxford (3 att.), [B]depicting an incendiary gun arrow with the glowing incendiary mass at its head clearly visible![/B] - the latest known depiction of an incendiary gun arrow: a Spanish musketeer, ca. 1570 - 'usual' gun arrows, from Taccola, De ingeneis, ca. 1440; Codex latinus monacensis (clm) 197 - from the Streydpuech (How to Wage War), ca. 1410-30; Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna, P 5135, fol. 9v - another 'usual' gun arrow, from Mariano Taccola, De ingeneis, ca. 1440; Bayerische Staatsbibliothek München, Clm 197, fol. 50r - a huge, moveable siege machine shaped as a dragon breathing fire - launching an incendiary arrow with clasped head, the glowing incendiary mass again clearly visible! From: Roberto Valturio, De re militari, 1466, fol. 79v, re-issued many times after - a gun arrow salvaged from the wreck of the Mary Rose; the ship sank in 1545. The Mary Rose Museum, Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. Actually I sent Alex Hildred, Curator of Ordnance at The Mary Rose, an email about two years ago, informing her on my incendiary gun arrow, and of course I sent photos. Guess what happened: she/they never replied! No reaction at all. They just don't care. Museums - grrr! - ![]() ![]() ![]() - the famous Loshult gun; a cast-bronze vase-shaped gun barrel very close to those pictured by de Milemete has become famous as the world's oldest known gun, the so-called Loshult gun, and is now preserved in the Statens Historiska Museet Stockholm, inv.-no. 2891. It is generally dated ca. 1330-50 and measures 31 cm overall, at a weight of 9.050 kilograms; the bore at the muzzle is 36 mm narrowing down to 31 mm on its way to the rear, which seems ideal for firing arrows featuring a cord binding for a tight fit in the muzzle, to minimize gas loss (2) - my highly important incendiary gun arrow Last edited by Matchlock; 4th May 2014 at 09:09 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
More photos of my highly important incendiary gun arrow.
m Last edited by Matchlock; 4th May 2014 at 06:10 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Attachments, from top:
- the little iron protective plate nailed to the blunt end of the haf of my incendiary gun arrow; all author's photos. - the 'normal' gun arrows with usual heads, in the collection of Burg Eltz, Germany; mostly author's photos, 1987. Please note that some of the Burg Eltz arrows feature [B]two pairs of iron fletchings mounted off-center! m Last edited by Matchlock; 4th May 2014 at 06:22 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Attachments:
the gun arrow exhibited in the Imperial Castle (Kaiserburg) Nürnberg - sadly exhibited together with a huge wall crossbow and misidentified as 'a wall crossbow quarrel' (German: Bolzen/Pfeil für Wallarmbrusten)! The hemp binding is now missing from the rear section of the haft. Author's photos and David Jaumann's); for the latter see his posts and photos my thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...thic+crossbows Go to page 7, post #187ff. ! m Last edited by Matchlock; 4th May 2014 at 06:32 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Another photo of the, obviously huge, gun arrow salvaged from the wreck of the Mary Rose. The ship sank in 1545.
m |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 93
|
![]()
It just amazes me the idea of finding something like this in a house where it has lain for so many centuries, for me as an American this is through-the-looking-glass fantasy stuff. It makes sense the shaft would dismount easy, if it comes out from the head upon impact there is less likelihood of it pulling the flaming point out. Such a fragile thing to have lasted so long in working order. Thanks for the post Matchlock.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
My pleasure, Machinist,
I would not really call the state of preservation that arrow is in 'working order', though ... ![]() Best, Michael |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 525
|
![]()
I wouldn't be so sure about that Michl, it is german quality afterall
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Thank you so much, Marcus,
Oh, it sure was 'made in Germany' about half a thousand years ago - but so am I, and I'm only 61. ![]() Now, what of us humble living beings will have survived in 500 years? ![]() ![]() ![]() I think these old, part organic objects that some of us are lucky enough to possess and touch for a span of time, have been doing much better so far ... Best, Michl |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 525
|
![]()
I found this incendiary crossbow arrow of similare structure as the incendiary gun arrow.
![]() The auction company compares the crossbow arrow with one at the Museum of history in Bern (germany). The arrow at this museum was found at the fortress of Altbüron (today's Switserland) which was destroyed in the year 1309. This arrow at the museum gives us an even earlier date as to this design. Like Michael already stated though, the depiction of such a gunarrow with cannon first appeared in 1326-7 ![]() Auction: Hermann-Historica, 59 lot number 4609. qpril 9/10th 2010. ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by Marcus den toom; 16th May 2014 at 08:56 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
This unique piece was purchased at That ouction by the Armory of the Veste Coburg, Northern Bavaria, and is now proudly preserved in their collections!
m |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 525
|
![]()
Thank you Michl,
![]() The price was absolutely ridiculous, but Coburg deserved this lucky bargain. I enquired about the specimen that was found in the ruins of Altbüron and was told that in 2012 Christoph Rösch made a book with this piece in it: "Altbüron. Die Metallfunde der 1309 zerstörten Burg. Archäologische Schriften Luzern 14, Luzern 2012. " |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Halstenbek, Germany
Posts: 202
|
![]()
I hope Michl will watch my reconstruction of the Loshult cannon from Above. It is made of brass on a lathe, grinded, smoothed, hammered for the casting shape and polished. Next year we will hopefully geht the official proof shot from our authorities.
The technical data lightly differs from the original due to safety reasons in order to get the official proof shot: Lenght over all: 300 mm Outer Diameter: at the chamber 110 mm, at the muzzle 70 mm Leght of barrel: 270 mm - flight: ca. 205 mm - chamber: ca. 65 mm Caliber: from chamber till 100 mm behind the muzzle 31 mm, at the muzzle 36 mm Diameter of chamber: 36 mm Weight: 9.050 g The next step is to reconstruct a carriage for it. Last edited by Andi; 30th June 2017 at 09:49 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 525
|
![]()
I am positive Michael would have apporved of your research and impressive recontruction.
Are you going to shoot incendiary arrows with it? ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Halstenbek, Germany
Posts: 202
|
![]()
Hopefully I'll get the official proof shot next year. But there will be hardly any chance to shoot gun arrows in Germany as there will be no shooting range with an approval for shooting gun arrows.
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|