Pierced blade?

shayde78 · 30th October 2017, 10:47 PM

Hi all,

I stumbled across this example of a keris with circular piercings on the blade. The holes seem perfectly round and mechanically drilled. I was wondering if this is a specific style, or just something done to jazz up a piece, but without any established tradition. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks!

mariusgmioc · 30th October 2017, 11:32 PM

I am curious myself but to me, it looks like a ruined blade...

A. G. Maisey · 31st October 2017, 12:38 AM

Why was this done?

No idea, it is not anything that I can associate with any Balinese tradition, so I guess it was done outside place of origin of the keris.

Many years ago, in Queensland, Australia, the Commissioner of Police decided that it was perfectly OK for Queenslanders to keep vicious, inherently dangerous weapons such as keris, provided they did not remove them from either their homes, or their scabbards.

To ensure that all keris remained in their scabbards at all times, it was decided that a hole or holes should be drilled through both the top part of the scabbard and the blade, and a bolt or bolts put through both scabbard and blade.

I doubt that the precision drilling of this keris is a result of that extremely intelligent administrative decision, but whoever did this drilling clearly possesses a level of intellect that could well be compared with that long-ago Queensland Policeman.

Jean · 31st October 2017, 07:03 PM

Another piece labeled as "Bali kris Ki Sudamala" with peculiarly shaped holes and just sold on a Dutch site

kai · 31st October 2017, 07:32 PM

Hello Jean,

I believe we had a similar keris posted here some time back...

(Quite a different animal and with unintentionally worn through blade, of course.)

Regards,
Kai

kai · 31st October 2017, 07:43 PM

Hello Alan,

Quote:

Many years ago, in Queensland, Australia, the Commissioner of Police decided that it was perfectly OK for Queenslanders to keep vicious, inherently dangerous weapons such as keris, provided they did not remove them from either their homes, or their scabbards.

To ensure that all keris remained in their scabbards at all times, it was decided that a hole or holes should be drilled through both the top part of the scabbard and the blade, and a bolt or bolts put through both scabbard and blade.

Seems this officer did not serve in the Indies nor Moroland...

Quote:

I doubt that the precision drilling of this keris is a result of that extremely intelligent administrative decision, but whoever did this drilling clearly possesses a level of intellect that could well be compared with that long-ago Queensland Policeman.

Quite certainly - that's a really nice keris Bali with genuinely pierced blade next to the gonjo that got molested by someone with bad aesthetics...

There are inlaid Moro kris with dots or "stars" - however their placement follows the flow of lines.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2017, 12:04 AM

--- on the other hand, maybe he did do time in a keris bearing society.

I used to know a bloke who had served in the British army in Malaya during the 1950's. He had been stabbed in the thigh and shoulder by a Malayan gentleman who did not like him very much.

During the 1990's near the town of Palur, just outside Solo in Central Java, a man killed his wife, wife's mother and wounded several neighbors before being restrained. He reckoned that an evil spirit made him do it. He used a keris.

Maybe that Queensland cop was just being cautious.

On the other hand, maybe he was somewhat misguided.

mariusgmioc · 1st November 2017, 10:35 AM

I'll stick to Alan's idea that the level of intelligence of whoever did this was about the same as the one of the Queensland policeman.

However, to me is apparent that whoever did this, did it in order to somehow improve the aspect of the keris and increase its market value... as twisted as this can be.

David · 1st November 2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I'll stick to Alan's idea that the level of intelligence of whoever did this was about the same as the one of the Queensland policeman.

However, to me is apparent that whoever did this, did it in order to somehow improve the aspect of the keris and increase its market value... as twisted as this can be.

Well, if they had gone ahead and filled those holes with gold (or even brass) i would certainly agree, though that seems outside the traditions of Bali (though common in other SEA areas). The holes certainly seem to have been placed in a very deliberate order though.

Jean · 1st November 2017, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, if they had gone ahead and filled those holes with gold (or even brass) i would certainly agree, though that seems outside the traditions of Bali (though common in other SEA areas). The holes certainly seem to have been placed in a very deliberate order though.

Yes, the holes are very orderly arranged (even spacing, 6 on each side of the blade) and the base of the blade has been carved (a more common practice) so it seems to be a deliberate stylistic choice from the owner and I respect it.

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2017, 10:14 PM

Sorry Jean, I disagree.

If this vandalism was carried out by a Balinese person the act is nothing short of desecration of a (possibly) holy object, or, at the very least an insult leveled at his own cultural values.

If it was carried out by a person who is/was not Balinese it is pure vandalism. This keris was not that person's to do with as he wished, he was only a momentary custodian of it, his obligation was to ensure its preservation from the moment he accepted it into his care. If he did not understand this, then he was simply uneducated.

shayde78 · 1st November 2017, 10:54 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I found the holes are actually 'speed holes' and they make the keris go faster. Learn more here and here

David · 2nd November 2017, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I found the holes are actually 'speed holes' and they make the keris go faster. Learn more here and here

lol!

David · 2nd November 2017, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Yes, the holes are very orderly arranged (even spacing, 6 on each side of the blade) and the base of the blade has been carved (a more common practice) so it seems to be a deliberate stylistic choice from the owner and I respect it.

Well, my acknowledgement that this was most probably done by someone with the intention of improving the keris or it's market value does not mean that i accept that they succeeded in that attempt. This seems to be a fairly nice Bali keris otherwise. I suspect our hole driller came along long after the making of this keris and it was probably done by someone who mistakenly thought this would give the appearance of some talismanic purpose. But i agree with Alan that the person responsible most probably does not belong to the Balinese culture.

Johan van Zyl · 15th November 2017, 11:29 AM

Friends, I want to echo/underline what Alan wrote: "...only a momentary custodian of it, his obligation was to ensure its preservation from the moment he accepted it into his care. If he did not understand this, then he was simply uneducated." In my own case, this has been my motto ever since I started collecting traditional edged weapons. I believe it is the only way one should treat these items, that makes sense. Furthermore, I hold that one should not try to collect them if one does not have this conviction. The same goes for the original muzzle loaders I have been able to collect.

Johan

30th October 2017, 10:47 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Pierced blade? Hi all, I stumbled across this example of a keris with circular piercings on the blade. The holes seem perfectly round and mechanically drilled. I was wondering if this is a specific style, or just something done to jazz up a piece, but without any established tradition. Any feedback is welcome. Thanks! Attached Images

31st October 2017, 07:03 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Another piece labeled as "Bali kris Ki Sudamala" with peculiarly shaped holes and just sold on a Dutch site Attached Images

30th October 2017, 11:32 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I am curious myself but to me, it looks like a ruined blade...

31st October 2017, 12:38 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Why was this done? No idea, it is not anything that I can associate with any Balinese tradition, so I guess it was done outside place of origin of the keris. Many years ago, in Queensland, Australia, the Commissioner of Police decided that it was perfectly OK for Queenslanders to keep vicious, inherently dangerous weapons such as keris, provided they did not remove them from either their homes, or their scabbards. To ensure that all keris remained in their scabbards at all times, it was decided that a hole or holes should be drilled through both the top part of the scabbard and the blade, and a bolt or bolts put through both scabbard and blade. I doubt that the precision drilling of this keris is a result of that extremely intelligent administrative decision, but whoever did this drilling clearly possesses a level of intellect that could well be compared with that long-ago Queensland Policeman.

31st October 2017, 07:32 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Jean, I believe we had a similar keris posted here some time back... (Quite a different animal and with unintentionally worn through blade, of course.) Regards, Kai

1st November 2017, 12:04 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	--- on the other hand, maybe he did do time in a keris bearing society. I used to know a bloke who had served in the British army in Malaya during the 1950's. He had been stabbed in the thigh and shoulder by a Malayan gentleman who did not like him very much. During the 1990's near the town of Palur, just outside Solo in Central Java, a man killed his wife, wife's mother and wounded several neighbors before being restrained. He reckoned that an evil spirit made him do it. He used a keris. Maybe that Queensland cop was just being cautious. On the other hand, maybe he was somewhat misguided.

1st November 2017, 10:35 AM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I'll stick to Alan's idea that the level of intelligence of whoever did this was about the same as the one of the Queensland policeman. However, to me is apparent that whoever did this, did it in order to somehow improve the aspect of the keris and increase its market value... as twisted as this can be.

1st November 2017, 10:14 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Sorry Jean, I disagree. If this vandalism was carried out by a Balinese person the act is nothing short of desecration of a (possibly) holy object, or, at the very least an insult leveled at his own cultural values. If it was carried out by a person who is/was not Balinese it is pure vandalism. This keris was not that person's to do with as he wished, he was only a momentary custodian of it, his obligation was to ensure its preservation from the moment he accepted it into his care. If he did not understand this, then he was simply uneducated.

1st November 2017, 10:54 PM	#12
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks for the feedback everyone. I found the holes are actually 'speed holes' and they make the keris go faster. Learn more here and here

15th November 2017, 11:29 AM	#15
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Friends, I want to echo/underline what Alan wrote: "...only a momentary custodian of it, his obligation was to ensure its preservation from the moment he accepted it into his care. If he did not understand this, then he was simply uneducated." In my own case, this has been my motto ever since I started collecting traditional edged weapons. I believe it is the only way one should treat these items, that makes sense. Furthermore, I hold that one should not try to collect them if one does not have this conviction. The same goes for the original muzzle loaders I have been able to collect. Johan