Unusual Moro Sword for discussion

Ian · 15th March 2023, 01:19 PM

This is another odd one that I've had for 20 years. The blade profile has been referred to as a Sulu pira (nothing to do with the pira of Yakan/Basilan). The dress, however, is distinctly odd.

The hilt may be a variant of the naga form, or perhaps a flower bud, with a brass punto. There is also a small upturned brass guard, which is distinctly odd for a Moro sword. The scabbard has okir carving resembling Maranao work, with remnants of colored paint decoration. There is also a drilled-through belt holder, again unusual for a Moro sword.

Putting this together, the best I can come up with is that we have a Moro blade dressed in Zamboanga, with the contributions of a Maranao carver. The small guard and belt holder have been seen on other Moro pieces believed to come from Zamboanga.

Those are my thoughts. Would be interested to hear what others think.

.

kai · 15th March 2023, 08:04 PM

Hello Ian,

That's an interesting riddle!

The blade seems roughly forged which doesn't vibe with any old Moro style IMHO. However, with these more modern pieces (around WW2?), this may not be a decisive criterion anymore...

The guard seems to follow the scabbard rather than function, too.

I'd look into other possible Lumad origins across Mindanao.

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 16th March 2023, 05:53 AM

Received via email:

"Btw regarding your odd Moro sword posted on the forum- it was made in Tugaya, by the Maranao. The clue is in the ferrule (same style/materials as those on gunong), the okir on the scabbard, and the inward-turning guard. They always used that weird misplaced guard on their swords."

Gavin Nugent · 16th March 2023, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Received via email:

"Btw regarding your odd Moro sword posted on the forum- it was made in Tugaya, by the Maranao. The clue is in the ferrule (same style/materials as those on gunong), the okir on the scabbard, and the inward-turning guard. They always used that weird misplaced guard on their swords."

Good insights right there casual reader.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20835

Ian · 17th March 2023, 12:46 PM

Thanks Gavin. I forgot about that old post eight years ago. Maranao it is.

Athanase · 26th March 2023, 02:14 AM

I have already seen 3 close blades, with a handle of the same general shape (but without detail) which was identified as Minangkabau.
The handle does more Sumatra for me. but there are so many influences that intersect in these regions that it is not always easy to know.

Here is one of the 3 examples of which I found the photo on the internet. The other two had a handle closer to Ian's

Interested Party · 26th March 2023, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

I have already seen 3 close blades, with a handle of the same general shape (but without detail) which was identified as Minangkabau.
The handle does more Sumatra for me. but there are so many influences that intersect in these regions that it is not always easy to know.

Here is one of the 3 examples of which I found the photo on the internet. The other two had a handle closer to Ian's

That is a beautiful and refined knife. The whole piece looks like Sumatran influence. The tang/handle junction is different than Ian's which seems like it would change how the blade handles.

kai · 26th March 2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

I have already seen 3 close blades, with a handle of the same general shape (but without detail) which was identified as Minangkabau.
The handle does more Sumatra for me. but there are so many influences that intersect in these regions that it is not always easy to know.

Here is one of the 3 examples of which I found the photo on the internet. The other two had a handle closer to Ian's

I beg to differ, Séverin: Neither the hilts nor the blade shapes are really close relatives. And, as mentioned by IP, the bolster is a different construction compared to the guard+ferrule.

What you're referring to is a whole family of antique blades from central Sumatra while Ian's modern piece is made in Tugaya - apparently not based on any specific ancestral Maranao blade. It might have been an early attempt to copy (or mix influences) which ended in the fantasy pieces being produced in Tugaya since the later 20th c.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 27th March 2023, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I beg to differ, Séverin: Neither the hilts nor the blade shapes are really close relatives. And, as mentioned by IP, the bolster is a different construction compared to the guard+ferrule.

Have to agree Séverin, I don't see any great resemblance, sorry.

15th March 2023, 01:19 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Unusual Moro Sword for discussion This is another odd one that I've had for 20 years. The blade profile has been referred to as a Sulu pira (nothing to do with the pira of Yakan/Basilan). The dress, however, is distinctly odd. The hilt may be a variant of the naga form, or perhaps a flower bud, with a brass punto. There is also a small upturned brass guard, which is distinctly odd for a Moro sword. The scabbard has okir carving resembling Maranao work, with remnants of colored paint decoration. There is also a drilled-through belt holder, again unusual for a Moro sword. Putting this together, the best I can come up with is that we have a Moro blade dressed in Zamboanga, with the contributions of a Maranao carver. The small guard and belt holder have been seen on other Moro pieces believed to come from Zamboanga. Those are my thoughts. Would be interested to hear what others think. . Attached Images

26th March 2023, 02:14 AM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	I have already seen 3 close blades, with a handle of the same general shape (but without detail) which was identified as Minangkabau. The handle does more Sumatra for me. but there are so many influences that intersect in these regions that it is not always easy to know. Here is one of the 3 examples of which I found the photo on the internet. The other two had a handle closer to Ian's Attached Images

15th March 2023, 08:04 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Ian, That's an interesting riddle! The blade seems roughly forged which doesn't vibe with any old Moro style IMHO. However, with these more modern pieces (around WW2?), this may not be a decisive criterion anymore... The guard seems to follow the scabbard rather than function, too. I'd look into other possible Lumad origins across Mindanao. Regards, Kai

16th March 2023, 05:53 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Received via email: "Btw regarding your odd Moro sword posted on the forum- it was made in Tugaya, by the Maranao. The clue is in the ferrule (same style/materials as those on gunong), the okir on the scabbard, and the inward-turning guard. They always used that weird misplaced guard on their swords."

17th March 2023, 12:46 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Thanks Gavin. I forgot about that old post eight years ago. Maranao it is.