Blackfoot Native American Knife

[Battara]

We were at the Indiana State Museum today and found this Blackfoot Native American knife made of trade steel, bone, trade brass, and tacks with beaded leather sheath. This was made at the end of the 19th century.

Enjoy.

[Robert]

Jose, That is truly one of the nicest knives of that culture that I have seen. Thanks you for posting it here as Native American Indian artifacts unfortunately not seen here as often as you would think they would be.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Thank you for sharing! Very nice dagger! And agree with Robert, sadly we see them here not often enough.

Regards,
Detlef

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by Robert

Jose, That is truly one of the nicest knives of that culture that I have seen. Thanks you for posting it here as Native American Indian artifacts unfortunately not seen here as often as you would think they would be.

Best,
Robert

I think people are leery of discussing what Native American artifacts they have. There have been a number of SWAT style raids on collectors who tried to buy or sell something supposedly forbidden. One old gentleman in particular had his entire collection, 60 years in the making, seized because some few objects could not be provenanced (which in the world of collecting is no big surprise). Things being what they are, reticence to be expected. I myself am very interested in the daggers of the Pacific Northwest, and if I had one (real examples being extremely valuable), I wouldn't post it for all the tea in China.

[Tim Simmons]

Very interesting and much appreciated posting.

[LJ]

Could I request some clarification?

What law have the collectors broken to justify the "SWAT style raids" ? I don't know the situation in America or Canada, but in Britain there is no law to prevent anybody owning Native American artefacts of any type or age. The only exception I can think of would be items that incorporate fragments of endangered species (covered by CITES legislation) and even then I understand that an offence would be committed only if you tried to import or trade in the items.

And yes, I agree the dagger is a very nice piece of work.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by LJ

Could I request some clarification?

What law have the collectors broken to justify the "SWAT style raids" ? I don't know the situation in America or Canada, but in Britain there is no law to prevent anybody owning Native American artefacts of any type or age. The only exception I can think of would be items that incorporate fragments of endangered species (covered by CITES legislation) and even then I understand that an offence would be committed only if you tried to import or trade in the items.

And yes, I agree the dagger is a very nice piece of work.

The thing is, you may not have broken any law….read this article:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...-home/7210675/

One of the big issues is possession of objects covered by things like NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act). In some cases, chain of custody from a Native American creator to a modern owner is unimportant, it still is considered to be property of a Native American tribal group (a legal body), and the object does not need to have come from a grave, have been looted, stolen or otherwise taken unethically from any Native American. There have been cases in the US of museums being forced to return objects purchased from natives by a staff anthropologist in the early 20th century. Much like one could buy keris in Java or Bali, as people lost interest in them and offered them for sale.
Please understand that I went to college to study archaeology and so from that and other perspectives, I don't want the property violation and data loss that comes from unauthorized excavation which is certainly a form of theft. And the keeping of Native American bones when a claimant has asked for their return is also a violation. But the idea that a whole collection could be seized simply because some bureaucrat was not satisfied with the provenance of every piece is also a violation.
Its a complicated issue and if you are still curious there is a lot to look for on line, but this to me is state sponsored theft and thats why I would not mention such artifacts being in my possession. US law enforcement has become rather heavy handed of late, and the courts very willing to back up all kinds of silliness.

[aiontay]

I would point out that in the early 20th century many Native People were systematically stripped of resources, land, oil (think of all those dead Osages) etc. while being forced in to a market economy. There may have been other reasons than lack of interest for heirlooms to pass out of families.

[drac2k]

Many Americans of European descent were also systematically stripped of their homes and farms and all of their possessions in the early 20th century ; it was called the "Great Depression."

[Battara]

To focus back on this knife, I posted this since it has some provenance, an age, and a tribal affiliation. I thought it was an interesting piece. If it weren't for the information and bead work, I would never have known it was Blackfoot. In form it reminds me of "trade daggers" made for the Native American market in the 18th and 19th centuries.

[Tim Simmons]

The knife does take the form of a much earlier period. You could wonder at what response it would stir if being sold with no information on ebay. The questions of condition and brightness of the brass elements could be off putting? It is a very nice piece. These links help show that not all genuine pieces have to look old.
http://furtradetomahawks.tripod.com/id4.html
http://furtradetomahawks.tripod.com/id45.html

[kronckew]

my family is in part Blackfoot.

i put all this ownership stuff down to our lack of adequate early border patrols, letting in all those illegal immigrants from europe, asia, and africa.

p.s. - granny wants her knife back.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by aiontay

I would point out that in the early 20th century many Native People were systematically stripped of resources, land, oil (think of all those dead Osages) etc. while being forced in to a market economy. There may have been other reasons than lack of interest for heirlooms to pass out of families.

True, but that doesn't mean that the ethical and judicial burden of such a circumstance should rest on the shoulders of a modern owner - a collector of antique arms not unlike yourself, perhaps.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

True, but that doesn't mean that the ethical and judicial burden of such a circumstance should rest on the shoulders of a modern owner - a collector of antique arms not unlike yourself, perhaps.

i agree. some of these confiscations appear to violate the constitutional prohibitions of illegal search and seizure. not that the govt. is above violating the constitution when it suits them.

p.s. - granny doesn't really want her knife back