Another Mandara short sword

Iain · 21st January 2012, 02:03 PM

Hi All,

Another little Mandara piece entered my collection this weekend. This poor guy has had a hard life. Waves in the short iron blade, nicks on the edge, its still being cleaned up, but I'll probably leave it with the dark patina, just do what I can with the active rust.

However it is interesting I think because it retains the leather grip and the leather over cloth scabbard. The blade decoration is also something I have not found before.

Despite the waves and slight twists (poor storage? rough life of use?) the blade is pretty flexible and springs back nicely.

The pommel is the little mushroom style that we've seen a few of now, the grip leather is just a simple wrap with a indented dot pattern.

The scabbard is not in great shape, but the leather is ooooold. Bits of rough cloth can be seen inside, haven't found any wood.

Overall length is 60cm.

My apologies for some of the reflections in the photos, the uneven surface of the blade made it a little tricky. And you'll have to forgive me for including yet another group photo of my small Mandara collection, I just really enjoy group shots.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st January 2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi All,

Another little Mandara piece entered my collection this weekend. This poor guy has had a hard life. Waves in the short iron blade, nicks on the edge, its still being cleaned up, but I'll probably leave it with the dark patina, just do what I can with the active rust.

However it is interesting I think because it retains the leather grip and the leather over cloth scabbard. The blade decoration is also something I have not found before.

Despite the waves and slight twists (poor storage? rough life of use?) the blade is pretty flexible and springs back nicely.

The pommel is the little mushroom style that we've seen a few of now, the grip leather is just a simple wrap with a indented dot pattern.

The scabbard is not in great shape, but the leather is ooooold. Bits of rough cloth can be seen inside, haven't found any wood.

Overall length is 60cm.

My apologies for some of the reflections in the photos, the uneven surface of the blade made it a little tricky. And you'll have to forgive me for including yet another group photo of my small Mandara collection, I just really enjoy group shots.

Salaams Iain, Marvelous old blade! Can you walk us through your derust proceedure. I have an ancient axe that I am derusting and have tried vinegar and coke ... not making much progress... What will you use on the old blade please? Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Iain · 21st January 2012, 03:12 PM

Hi Ibrahiim, sometimes I use vinegar, on this particular piece I only want to remove the active red rust. So many hours of oiling and scrubbing with fine steel wool. Nothing special really. For me it's important to only remove what is absolutely necessary.

A.alnakkas · 21st January 2012, 05:56 PM

Nice one Iain!

It seems that the tip has been shortened or reshaped? a rather attractive blade really, cant wait to see it once its all cleaned up!

Iain · 21st January 2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Nice one Iain!

It seems that the tip has been shortened or reshaped? a rather attractive blade really, cant wait to see it once its all cleaned up!

Hi mate, actually tip should be original, many swords in this region have rounded tips, just that many of the ones I have are the pointed tips so this new one stands out. This is one reason I love Mandara region weapons, so many varieties in the forms.

A.alnakkas · 21st January 2012, 06:11 PM

Hmm, reason why I thought so is that the decoration on the blade goes all the way to the tip and seems to have continued. Could be wrong though :P

Iain · 21st January 2012, 06:31 PM

I would normally think the same and it's hard to show on the photos, but the decoration actually stops just short of the tip. So I think it's the original length, it would be a typical size for this region.

Martin Lubojacky · 21st January 2012, 10:37 PM

Congratulations Iain ! This one is really good...

Iain · 21st January 2012, 11:35 PM

Thanks Martin! The photos hide the worst parts I think, there really are some twists in the blade side to side. So it is only good to look at it in profile like in the photos.

But it is a little bit rare and for something old I should not complain, I think it had a hard life and I am happy to give it a good retirement.

TVV · 22nd January 2012, 08:07 AM

Iain, very interesting sword, thanks for sharing. If this is the sword from the German on-line auction, really glad it went to you. Per the Wente-Lukas scans that you have posted before, would this make this sword Chamba?
regards,
Teodor

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd January 2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim, sometimes I use vinegar, on this particular piece I only want to remove the active red rust. So many hours of oiling and scrubbing with fine steel wool. Nothing special really. For me it's important to only remove what is absolutely necessary.

Salaams Iain~ I agree on the careful use of vinegar on this piece or possibly lemon salt. It will look great when its finished so please post a final picture. What age do you place on the sword?. It has to be an all time classic.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Iain · 22nd January 2012, 04:13 PM

Hi Ibrahiim,

On this example I do not plan to use any acid based cleaning. I like the dark patina and the potential for lose of material is not worth it. Only necessary to stabilize the current condition.

The age, I would hope 19th century, but this region kept producing traditional weapons for quite some time in the 20th century. Even today the region is still not very modernized.

All the best,
Iain

Iain · 24th January 2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Iain, very interesting sword, thanks for sharing. If this is the sword from the German on-line auction, really glad it went to you. Per the Wente-Lukas scans that you have posted before, would this make this sword Chamba?
regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,

Apologies for not responding earlier, somehow missed your post! Yes, it was from Germany, didn't realize many folks here knew about that particular resource.

I think it's very tough to say on pieces like this from the few scans I have at hand what the ethnicity is. I think there is similarity with the Chamba sword I have, but the blade form is entirely different. Some of these ethnic groups are very, very small and the amount of cross influence must have been large. The variety of forms coming out of the region always surprises me and in that sense, even the researchers who documented what they could, might easily have missed many sub variations.

All the best,

Iain

TVV · 24th January 2012, 01:51 AM

Iain, thank you for the answer on the tribal attribution of this really nice piece. I guess, referring to these swords as Mandara, despite their diversity, is the safest way to approach this for now. I wonder if any of these forms were also popular with the armies of Adamawa, or if these were confined to the non-Muslim groups resisting the conquest attempts of the latter.
Regards,
Teodor

Iain · 24th January 2012, 10:22 AM

Hi Teodor,

These should have more or less be used by non Islamic groups. The takouba seems to have started to seen more use in Mandara after the Fulani launched several incursions in the early 1800s and the region became somewhat more Islamic with a couple small emirates in place.

In emirates like Adamawa you probably would have found irregulars with a variety of weapon forms.

There were very few standing troops usually and village/town rulers were responsible for providing levies. Up until the Fulani Jihads, it is probably fair to say most of these areas were nominally Muslim but even the ruling class were not particularly strict. While household troops, like the heavily armoured cavalry, were usually also the bodyguards of the emir, the majority of troops were on foot and would supply some of their own equipment.

Still, so far it has seemed to me, in my admittedly cursory attempts to research these areas, that the takouba fairly quickly supplanted native sword forms.

Cheers,

Iain

21st January 2012, 02:03 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Another Mandara short sword Hi All, Another little Mandara piece entered my collection this weekend. This poor guy has had a hard life. Waves in the short iron blade, nicks on the edge, its still being cleaned up, but I'll probably leave it with the dark patina, just do what I can with the active rust. However it is interesting I think because it retains the leather grip and the leather over cloth scabbard. The blade decoration is also something I have not found before. Despite the waves and slight twists (poor storage? rough life of use?) the blade is pretty flexible and springs back nicely. The pommel is the little mushroom style that we've seen a few of now, the grip leather is just a simple wrap with a indented dot pattern. The scabbard is not in great shape, but the leather is ooooold. Bits of rough cloth can be seen inside, haven't found any wood. Overall length is 60cm. My apologies for some of the reflections in the photos, the uneven surface of the blade made it a little tricky. And you'll have to forgive me for including yet another group photo of my small Mandara collection, I just really enjoy group shots. Attached Images

21st January 2012, 11:35 PM	#9
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Thanks Martin! The photos hide the worst parts I think, there really are some twists in the blade side to side. So it is only good to look at it in profile like in the photos. But it is a little bit rare and for something old I should not complain, I think it had a hard life and I am happy to give it a good retirement. Last edited by Iain; 21st January 2012 at 11:51 PM.

21st January 2012, 03:12 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Ibrahiim, sometimes I use vinegar, on this particular piece I only want to remove the active red rust. So many hours of oiling and scrubbing with fine steel wool. Nothing special really. For me it's important to only remove what is absolutely necessary.

21st January 2012, 05:56 PM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Nice one Iain! It seems that the tip has been shortened or reshaped? a rather attractive blade really, cant wait to see it once its all cleaned up!

21st January 2012, 06:11 PM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hmm, reason why I thought so is that the decoration on the blade goes all the way to the tip and seems to have continued. Could be wrong though :P

21st January 2012, 06:31 PM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	I would normally think the same and it's hard to show on the photos, but the decoration actually stops just short of the tip. So I think it's the original length, it would be a typical size for this region.

21st January 2012, 10:37 PM	#8
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Congratulations Iain ! This one is really good...

22nd January 2012, 08:07 AM	#10
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,622	Iain, very interesting sword, thanks for sharing. If this is the sword from the German on-line auction, really glad it went to you. Per the Wente-Lukas scans that you have posted before, would this make this sword Chamba? regards, Teodor

22nd January 2012, 04:13 PM	#12
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Ibrahiim, On this example I do not plan to use any acid based cleaning. I like the dark patina and the potential for lose of material is not worth it. Only necessary to stabilize the current condition. The age, I would hope 19th century, but this region kept producing traditional weapons for quite some time in the 20th century. Even today the region is still not very modernized. All the best, Iain

24th January 2012, 01:51 AM	#14
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,622	Iain, thank you for the answer on the tribal attribution of this really nice piece. I guess, referring to these swords as Mandara, despite their diversity, is the safest way to approach this for now. I wonder if any of these forms were also popular with the armies of Adamawa, or if these were confined to the non-Muslim groups resisting the conquest attempts of the latter. Regards, Teodor

24th January 2012, 10:22 AM	#15
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Teodor, These should have more or less be used by non Islamic groups. The takouba seems to have started to seen more use in Mandara after the Fulani launched several incursions in the early 1800s and the region became somewhat more Islamic with a couple small emirates in place. In emirates like Adamawa you probably would have found irregulars with a variety of weapon forms. There were very few standing troops usually and village/town rulers were responsible for providing levies. Up until the Fulani Jihads, it is probably fair to say most of these areas were nominally Muslim but even the ruling class were not particularly strict. While household troops, like the heavily armoured cavalry, were usually also the bodyguards of the emir, the majority of troops were on foot and would supply some of their own equipment. Still, so far it has seemed to me, in my admittedly cursory attempts to research these areas, that the takouba fairly quickly supplanted native sword forms. Cheers, Iain