Dagger - Taureg?

blue lander · 6th January 2014, 11:07 PM

The sheath and the patterns on it are nearly identical to the Takouba scabbard I have, which I believe is Tuareg. But I've only seen the tebu style Tuareg daggers, never one of this shape. Any thoughts?

Rich · 7th January 2014, 06:11 AM

The sheath pattern on your knife is identical to the scabbard pattern on my Taureg sword (tourista), but the hilt is quite different. My sword hilt is the more standard bulbous pommel and metal grip and rectangular guard.

Rich

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th January 2014, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

The sheath and the patterns on it are nearly identical to the Takouba scabbard I have, which I believe is Tuareg. But I've only seen the tebu style Tuareg daggers, never one of this shape. Any thoughts?

Salaams Blue lander ..I think the type of bulbous pommel must be one of the common Tuareg styles perhaps as a direct result of the Khoumya Berber style and the other is probably the cross shaped pommel.(designed onto the Tuareg weapon from the famous Southern Cross star form)..

I have placed a few different types for perusal....and comment.

There is an excellent Tuareg weaponry thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17723

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Martin Lubojacky · 7th January 2014, 08:39 AM

Hi blue lander,
Here you can also find some styles of pommels: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16478, and there are another interesting threads.
Re. a.m. link, your sheath and blade is similar to the dagger, which allegedly came from Agadez area (but I think it could be commonly used in central part of the territoty - maybe Niger, south Algeria, western third of Libya ?).
I have strange feeling, that, besides the classical "old styles" handles and pommels, the "art of hanndles" of Tuareg daggers is alive even currently and the fashioners are relatively creative
(Ibrahiim, the X shaped handle is not Tuareg, but Hadendoa, Habab)
Regards,
Martin

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th January 2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Hi blue lander,
Here you can also find some styles of pommels: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16478, and there are another interesting threads.
Re. a.m. link, your sheath and blade is similar to the dagger, which allegedly came from Agadez area (but I think it could be commonly used in central part of the territoty - maybe Niger, south Algeria, western third of Libya ?).
I have strange feeling, that, besides the classical "old styles" handles and pommels, the "art of hanndles" of Tuareg daggers is alive even currently and the fashioners are relatively creative
(Ibrahiim, the X shaped handle is not Tuareg, but Hadendoa, Habab)
Regards,
Martin

Salaams Martin Quite right. Noted.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

blue lander · 7th January 2014, 02:19 PM

Wow, I didn't realize there was so much variety in tuarag daggers. It seems like a very much alive tradition.

regihis · 11th January 2014, 04:41 AM

Tuareg tourist dagger

kronckew · 11th January 2014, 08:55 AM

there was a video on the BBC news this past week about tuareg and the drying of the desert affecting their grazing and forcing them to move. apparently gadaffi had provided a lot of aid to them and they supported him during the revolution and many of them were killed, and they are having hard times.

anyway, they showed a gathering of tuareg, and i noticed many were wearing taquobas. on chap was actually wearing three apparently brand new ones - i assume he was wandering thru the crowd trying to sell them.

Martin Lubojacky · 11th January 2014, 12:54 PM

Hi regihis,
Please, could you explain why do you think it is "tourist" dagger ? (I think we can call it more or less contemporary, but not tourist. Some tourist pieces are in the link mentioned in previous post.)
Martin

blue lander · 11th January 2014, 04:38 PM

I did wonder if it was a tourist piece... neither the blade or handle look very functional. Plus there seems to be a lot of identically decorated Takouba and dagger sheaths/scabbards. But it looks very weather worn so I assumed it was authentic but modern. Maybe they're making these for tourists and then carrying them around to age them?

blue lander · 18th January 2014, 12:11 AM

It finally arrived today. It looks like there used to be another piece going around the end of the hilt. The blade's definitely of the scrap metal variety, but it's pretty sharp and there's a pattern etched around the edges. The tip looks broken off and the area around the tip is bent. The sheath looks just like my takouba sheath. The green bits behind that metal band are just a green color piece of fabric. I assume there was a metal end piece to it at some point.There's odd dots on the brass belt ring. Considering the amount of wear and tear on the sheath I'd be suprised to hear it's a tourist dagger. Besides the usual signs of wear there's a couple cuts on the leather. Unless it was aged intentionally.

Sajen · 18th January 2014, 02:08 PM

I am not very firm by this area of collecting but I don't think that this dagger is a "tourist" dagger, like you I see that there are clear signs of excessive use. And the tourist daggers are much more fancy IMHO.

Regards,

Detlef

blue lander · 19th January 2014, 03:31 AM

Unless I see evidence otherwise I'm happy to consider this a legit but very modern piece. Comparing the sheath to my Takouba scabbard, the leather on the dagger sheath is much shinier. I guess it spent less time in the desert.

Martin Lubojacky · 19th January 2014, 12:49 PM

Hi blue lander,
Maybe I am wrong, but I am of the opinion it is not a very modern piece. I think it is what we could call "contemporary", maybe from seventies. As Sajen already wrote, very modern (and touristic) would really be more fancy. This was made for use. The shining scabbard could also mean, that it was used extensively (again as Sajen mentioned; polished by contact with clothing and unwashed hands), not only that it is new. Shinier scabbard should be a "positive" sign. You have authentic artefact, not a souvenier.
Martin

Iain · 19th January 2014, 02:46 PM

To add to Martin's points, the heavy brass ring on the scabbard is a very good sign this is not entirely new. 21st century items typically have white metal or aluminium instead.

While this is certainly a 20th century item, it is authentic I think as well.

blue lander · 21st January 2014, 03:47 PM

Thanks all - pleased that it's the real deal. I never considered that shiny leather was a sign of age, but that makes sense now that you explain it.

6th January 2014, 11:07 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Dagger - Taureg? The sheath and the patterns on it are nearly identical to the Takouba scabbard I have, which I believe is Tuareg. But I've only seen the tebu style Tuareg daggers, never one of this shape. Any thoughts? Attached Images

18th January 2014, 12:11 AM	#11
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It finally arrived today. It looks like there used to be another piece going around the end of the hilt. The blade's definitely of the scrap metal variety, but it's pretty sharp and there's a pattern etched around the edges. The tip looks broken off and the area around the tip is bent. The sheath looks just like my takouba sheath. The green bits behind that metal band are just a green color piece of fabric. I assume there was a metal end piece to it at some point.There's odd dots on the brass belt ring. Considering the amount of wear and tear on the sheath I'd be suprised to hear it's a tourist dagger. Besides the usual signs of wear there's a couple cuts on the leather. Unless it was aged intentionally. Attached Images

7th January 2014, 06:11 AM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	The sheath pattern on your knife is identical to the scabbard pattern on my Taureg sword (tourista), but the hilt is quite different. My sword hilt is the more standard bulbous pommel and metal grip and rectangular guard. Rich

7th January 2014, 08:39 AM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi blue lander, Here you can also find some styles of pommels: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16478, and there are another interesting threads. Re. a.m. link, your sheath and blade is similar to the dagger, which allegedly came from Agadez area (but I think it could be commonly used in central part of the territoty - maybe Niger, south Algeria, western third of Libya ?). I have strange feeling, that, besides the classical "old styles" handles and pommels, the "art of hanndles" of Tuareg daggers is alive even currently and the fashioners are relatively creative (Ibrahiim, the X shaped handle is not Tuareg, but Hadendoa, Habab) Regards, Martin

7th January 2014, 02:19 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Wow, I didn't realize there was so much variety in tuarag daggers. It seems like a very much alive tradition.

11th January 2014, 04:41 AM	#7
regihis Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 39	Tuareg tourist dagger

11th January 2014, 08:55 AM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	there was a video on the BBC news this past week about tuareg and the drying of the desert affecting their grazing and forcing them to move. apparently gadaffi had provided a lot of aid to them and they supported him during the revolution and many of them were killed, and they are having hard times. anyway, they showed a gathering of tuareg, and i noticed many were wearing taquobas. on chap was actually wearing three apparently brand new ones - i assume he was wandering thru the crowd trying to sell them.

11th January 2014, 12:54 PM	#9
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi regihis, Please, could you explain why do you think it is "tourist" dagger ? (I think we can call it more or less contemporary, but not tourist. Some tourist pieces are in the link mentioned in previous post.) Martin

11th January 2014, 04:38 PM	#10
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I did wonder if it was a tourist piece... neither the blade or handle look very functional. Plus there seems to be a lot of identically decorated Takouba and dagger sheaths/scabbards. But it looks very weather worn so I assumed it was authentic but modern. Maybe they're making these for tourists and then carrying them around to age them?

18th January 2014, 02:08 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	I am not very firm by this area of collecting but I don't think that this dagger is a "tourist" dagger, like you I see that there are clear signs of excessive use. And the tourist daggers are much more fancy IMHO. Regards, Detlef

19th January 2014, 03:31 AM	#13
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Unless I see evidence otherwise I'm happy to consider this a legit but very modern piece. Comparing the sheath to my Takouba scabbard, the leather on the dagger sheath is much shinier. I guess it spent less time in the desert.

19th January 2014, 12:49 PM	#14
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi blue lander, Maybe I am wrong, but I am of the opinion it is not a very modern piece. I think it is what we could call "contemporary", maybe from seventies. As Sajen already wrote, very modern (and touristic) would really be more fancy. This was made for use. The shining scabbard could also mean, that it was used extensively (again as Sajen mentioned; polished by contact with clothing and unwashed hands), not only that it is new. Shinier scabbard should be a "positive" sign. You have authentic artefact, not a souvenier. Martin

19th January 2014, 02:46 PM	#15
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	To add to Martin's points, the heavy brass ring on the scabbard is a very good sign this is not entirely new. 21st century items typically have white metal or aluminium instead. While this is certainly a 20th century item, it is authentic I think as well.

21st January 2014, 03:47 PM	#16
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks all - pleased that it's the real deal. I never considered that shiny leather was a sign of age, but that makes sense now that you explain it.