Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st January 2023, 09:24 AM   #1
PHILGERS
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 3
Default Unknown firearm

I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...
Attached Images
      
PHILGERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 02:17 PM   #2
Will M
Member
 
Will M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario
Posts: 391
Default

It appears to be an older decorative piece. No place for a lock so it really cannot fire unless you hold a flame to the pan. The pan suggests flintlock.
Will M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 08:35 PM   #3
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,079
Default

It's a type known as a touch-fire among other names, and they turn up all over the East as a simple low tech shooter. I will stick my neck out and say South East Asia, somewhere under Chinese influence. Nice item, one to enjoy.
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2023, 08:07 AM   #4
JBG163
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: France
Posts: 207
Default

Chinese or vietnamese is a good guess. With the symbol, french history, and Mother of Pearl inlay, i would go toward Vietnam
JBG163 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2023, 12:07 PM   #5
ausjulius
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: musorian territory
Posts: 422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILGERS View Post
I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...
it is a vietnamese made firearm i belive.
ausjulius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2023, 12:18 PM   #6
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 472
Default

touch-hole guns were primitive guns all over the world and came in all sizes in Asia (but existed in Europe too)



Last edited by milandro; 22nd January 2023 at 12:41 PM.
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2023, 12:31 PM   #7
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILGERS View Post
I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...
at some point it may have had a simple ignition mechanism such as these Japanese weapons

milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2023, 01:16 PM   #8
PHILGERS
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 3
Default

thank you all for your information. I think the stock heel is ivory
PHILGERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2023, 01:55 PM   #9
PHILGERS
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 3
Default

Does anybody have an idea of the era of this gun?

Last edited by Lee; 24th January 2023 at 08:18 PM.
PHILGERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2023, 12:07 PM   #10
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILGERS View Post
Does anybody have an idea of the era of this gun?
I am not sure that one can affirm without any doubt that this is an ancient made weapon But hand cannons (which this is) are very old indeed , however their use extends to modern days too

"....Cannons are attested to in India starting from 1366.[33] The Joseon kingdom in Korea acquired knowledge of gunpowder from China by 1372[34] and started producing cannons by 1377.[35] In Southeast Asia Đại Việt soldiers were using hand cannons at the very latest by 1390 when they employed them in killing Champa king Che Bong Nga.[36] Chinese observer recorded the Javanese use of hand cannon for marriage ceremony in 1413 during Zheng He's voyage.[37][38] Japan was already aware of gunpowder warfare due to the Mongol invasions during the 13th century, but did not acquire a cannon until a monk took one back to Japan from China in 1510,[39] and firearms were not produced until 1543, when the Portuguese introduced matchlocks which were known as tanegashima to the Japanese.[40] The art of firing the hand cannon called Ōzutsu (大筒) has remained as a Ko-budō martial arts form.[41][42]..."
So, I would call this a small hand cannon
Some of these, In Japan, are contemporary made. I am not saying that your piece is, but It doesn't apart to be hundreds of years old.
Assuming it is a functional weapon (?) it may be a relatively old weapon or a more modern reproduction.

Last edited by fernando; 25th January 2023 at 06:10 PM.
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2023, 06:09 PM   #11
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

milandro, you know that forum rules are that images ought to be uploaded using forum attachment features. You should save your pictures in your disk and then attach them to threads.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2023, 06:44 PM   #12
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando View Post
milandro, you know that forum rules are that images ought to be uploaded using forum attachment features. You should save your pictures in your disk and then attach them to threads.
sorry, I didn't know that, these pictures aren't mine and since the feature existed I thought it was ok
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2023, 08:06 PM   #13
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milandro View Post
sorry, I didn't know that, these pictures aren't mine and since the feature existed I thought it was ok
Still you know where the pictures were; you may always save them and upload them with forum (manage attachments) features, found hereunder. This way pictures remain permanently in respective threads; will not vanish when host links are broken.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2023, 09:10 PM   #14
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 472
Default

Thanks, won't forget it

I managed to retrieve some of the images


So, I would call this a small hand cannon
Some of these, In Japan, are contemporary made. I am not saying that your piece is, but It doesn't apart to be hundreds of years old.
Assuming it is a functional weapon (?) it may be a relatively old weapon or a more modern reproduction.
Attached Images
    
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.