What do you think? Fake dao?

josh stout · 6th February 2009, 03:37 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=390024175274

This is a kind of later dao that I often think is a fake but turns out to be good. I am not sure on this one. The aging on the wrap looks good, as do the authentic looking dings on the scabbard, but there is no wear on the fittings, and the blade is clean all the way to flush with the guard. Also, I cannot see any pattern on the blade.

It was not one I bid on, but I am interested in what others think.
Josh

katana · 6th February 2009, 06:21 PM

Hi Josh,
looking at the hilt...it does seem strange there is little or no signs of wear to the fittings....and the wrap may be 'artifically dirted'....it doesn't seem 'quite right'. Although I think there is layering evident in the blade.

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 6th February 2009, 06:34 PM

I think it is the real thing just not 19th century. Clean blades on old weapons is not rare? I am certain that the hilt fittings are genuine. It does seem an extraordinary high price. I do believe they were in use during ww2 and after? The seller sells good stuff.

RSWORD · 6th February 2009, 07:31 PM

This is a genuine piece of the late Qing period. It is essentially a parade sword and not made for combat. I have had several of this style. They typically have nicely pierced fittings but the blades tend to be on the thin side but this one has nice fullering. They do tend to be layered but nothing exceptional. This one seems to have a poor lacquer or paint job. Many of the ones I have seen have rayskin. You do see some wear to the wrap. In the close up you can make out some dark spots but keeping in mind as a parade saber it wouldn't have seen a lot of use probably. They tend to bring high prices because they are often quite complete and harken back to earlier days and we all know how hard it is to find a complete 18th century saber in these kinds of conditions.

Philip · 9th February 2009, 07:31 AM

Rick Stroud is spot on, this piece is kosher. It may not be 18th cent., but "late Qing" (19th cent.) covers it. I've had several of similar hilt and blade configuration over the years. Blade certainly does look awfully clean, but that doesn't mean it's new. The close up photo indicates that it's seen its share of abrasive cleaning over the years, look at the striations.

These sabers (blade shape indicates that it's a liuyedao or willow-leaf saber) are Qing military, this one is typical of a lower- to-mid-ranking officer. Workmanship is typical of the 19th cent., certainly can't hold a candle to that of prior centuries, but it's decent. The ones made at the very end of the dynasty are quite insubstantial not as well decorated or finished.

These are not just parade weapons. I've polished a few, and blades are tempered. The ones presented as awards for distinguished service are quite finely crafted. Some years ago I had the pleasure of handling one that was presented to Gen. Charles "Chinese" Gordon for his service to the Qing during the Taiping Rebellion (as we all know he was killed at Khartoum). Saber is now in the Royal Engineers Museum in the UK, along with his mandarin's uniform and the Yellow Riding Jacket conferred by the emperor. The blade is far beefier than anything seen on a British officers regulation sword of the era, it has the overall heft of a katana blade with a dorsal thickness at the forte like that of some Burmese dhas!

josh stout · 9th February 2009, 02:50 PM

Thanks everyone that is exactly what I wanted to know. I am so used to seeing Chinese things that were used regularly, that when I see something in such good condition I get suspicious.

The little drilled holes in the fittings instead of more finely carved piercing is what I have seen in other late examples, but the blade looked unusually heavy combined with a bit of crudeness in the construction so I wondered what was going on.

Josh

6th February 2009, 03:37 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	What do you think? Fake dao? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=390024175274 This is a kind of later dao that I often think is a fake but turns out to be good. I am not sure on this one. The aging on the wrap looks good, as do the authentic looking dings on the scabbard, but there is no wear on the fittings, and the blade is clean all the way to flush with the guard. Also, I cannot see any pattern on the blade. It was not one I bid on, but I am interested in what others think. Josh

6th February 2009, 06:21 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Josh, looking at the hilt...it does seem strange there is little or no signs of wear to the fittings....and the wrap may be 'artifically dirted'....it doesn't seem 'quite right'. Although I think there is layering evident in the blade. Regards David Attached Images

6th February 2009, 06:34 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think it is the real thing just not 19th century. Clean blades on old weapons is not rare? I am certain that the hilt fittings are genuine. It does seem an extraordinary high price. I do believe they were in use during ww2 and after? The seller sells good stuff.

6th February 2009, 07:31 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	This is a genuine piece of the late Qing period. It is essentially a parade sword and not made for combat. I have had several of this style. They typically have nicely pierced fittings but the blades tend to be on the thin side but this one has nice fullering. They do tend to be layered but nothing exceptional. This one seems to have a poor lacquer or paint job. Many of the ones I have seen have rayskin. You do see some wear to the wrap. In the close up you can make out some dark spots but keeping in mind as a parade saber it wouldn't have seen a lot of use probably. They tend to bring high prices because they are often quite complete and harken back to earlier days and we all know how hard it is to find a complete 18th century saber in these kinds of conditions.

9th February 2009, 07:31 AM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Rick Stroud is spot on, this piece is kosher. It may not be 18th cent., but "late Qing" (19th cent.) covers it. I've had several of similar hilt and blade configuration over the years. Blade certainly does look awfully clean, but that doesn't mean it's new. The close up photo indicates that it's seen its share of abrasive cleaning over the years, look at the striations. These sabers (blade shape indicates that it's a liuyedao or willow-leaf saber) are Qing military, this one is typical of a lower- to-mid-ranking officer. Workmanship is typical of the 19th cent., certainly can't hold a candle to that of prior centuries, but it's decent. The ones made at the very end of the dynasty are quite insubstantial not as well decorated or finished. These are not just parade weapons. I've polished a few, and blades are tempered. The ones presented as awards for distinguished service are quite finely crafted. Some years ago I had the pleasure of handling one that was presented to Gen. Charles "Chinese" Gordon for his service to the Qing during the Taiping Rebellion (as we all know he was killed at Khartoum). Saber is now in the Royal Engineers Museum in the UK, along with his mandarin's uniform and the Yellow Riding Jacket conferred by the emperor. The blade is far beefier than anything seen on a British officers regulation sword of the era, it has the overall heft of a katana blade with a dorsal thickness at the forte like that of some Burmese dhas!

9th February 2009, 02:50 PM	#6
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thanks everyone that is exactly what I wanted to know. I am so used to seeing Chinese things that were used regularly, that when I see something in such good condition I get suspicious. The little drilled holes in the fittings instead of more finely carved piercing is what I have seen in other late examples, but the blade looked unusually heavy combined with a bit of crudeness in the construction so I wondered what was going on. Josh