Ivory Hilted Choora For Comment

Lew · 23rd October 2005, 12:14 PM

Hi Guys

Just picked this up today. Seller claims it's wootz. Seems to be in good shape and the scabbard looks quite old.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/19thC-INDO-PER...QQcmdZViewItem

Lew

B.I · 23rd October 2005, 12:41 PM

hi,
these rarely had wootz blades, but some did. the seller is quite reputable (not on the internet, but in the arms world - alan cook) so i think his description would not be there to decieve. also, i agree the mount is from a 'shamshir'.
if it is wootz (which you can assume it is) its a good price.
i like the chisselling on the back spine, and these pieces were normally relatively crude, but this is a nice example. well done.

Ferguson · 24th October 2005, 01:16 AM

Gorgeous. Wonder if the hanger mount was used along with some attachment at the scabbard mouth to hang it with a chain? Or maybe the owner just liked the inscription on the mount. Or hung a tassel from it? Very very nice.

Steve

Yannis · 24th October 2005, 08:31 PM

I agree with B.I. Plus, it is bigger than average choora.

Lew · 5th November 2005, 09:36 PM

Hi All

The choora arrived today but unfortunately it's not wootz

I t is a very nice old example though. I guess even the experts make mistakes.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2005, 09:44 PM

I see this seller quite frequently at a local market and I am not sure expert is quite the right term.

Tim

Lew · 6th November 2005, 05:29 AM

Tim

I figured that Alan Cook since he does deal with antique weapons as a business would be familar with what wootz looks like. It is still a lovely choora very nice quality overall and probably worth what I paid for it.

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2005, 10:11 AM

Hi Lew, it is indeed a very nice example well worth having I just could not resist a gibe at a dealer. Tim

Ferguson · 6th November 2005, 11:34 AM

Lew, it's still a beautiful piece. But I think the seller needs as least a "Neutral" feedback. Have you corresponded with him since you received it? I'd be curious as to his reaction. I notice that he didn't post any closeup pics of the blade on the auction. Could there be a reason for this?

It's neat that the metal chape extends up, and covers the whole scabbard.

Steve

RSWORD · 6th November 2005, 02:12 PM

Alan Cook does the Timonium show and I have spoken to him on a few occasions at shows in the US and I find him a very nice person willing to talk shop with you. However, I also had a very negative experience with him through Ebay that, in addition to Lew's experience, throws up a slight red flag. I bought a Chinese sword from him through Ebay that he had described as 19th century. While the pictures were not great, I took him at his word as an experienced dealer that should know what he is selling. When it arrived I was extremely dissapointed to find out it was a late 20th century reproduction and very clearly not 19th century. In my correspondance with Alan he stated he had purchased it at an auction house and their description was 19th century so he assumed it was 19th century. I made a list of all the features of the sword that clearly indicated it was a reproduction and mentioned how many reproductions were coming out of China. His response was the he did not know fakes were being made in China. That was quite a dissapointing response from a guy that has been dealing for quite some time. While I am not trying to portray Alan negatively because as I said he was a nice chap in person, we do have a trend here that I think it important to share so that at the least we all learn to ask a few more questions and get a few more pictures if we decide to have further transactions with him.

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2005, 02:49 PM

RS, I like the cut of your gibe sir, I have long waited to use that phrase in context. Nice.

Battara · 7th November 2005, 06:26 AM

I do agree with Rsword and Ferguson. I with Rsword have had nice dealings with him in person, though I have questioned some of his "understanding" about some things. A neutral would be a good response.

Ian · 7th November 2005, 02:46 PM

Lew:

Tough break on that one, but I think you got a very nice choora in any case.

I was looking at it myself during the auction and was concerned that there was really no picture showing detail of the pattern on the blade (to confirm wootz). Having spoken with Alan Cook at Timonium, I would have to agree with some of the earlier comments -- ethnographic weapons may not be his strongest area of familiarity.

Ian.

Lew · 8th November 2005, 12:07 PM

Hi All

I noticed on the feedback that someone else just purchased a sword described as being wootz and it was not

I see a pattern forming here and it ain't a crystaline damascus one

Lew

23rd October 2005, 12:14 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ivory Hilted Choora For Comment Hi Guys Just picked this up today. Seller claims it's wootz. Seems to be in good shape and the scabbard looks quite old. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/19thC-INDO-PER...QQcmdZViewItem Lew

6th November 2005, 05:29 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim I figured that Alan Cook since he does deal with antique weapons as a business would be familar with what wootz looks like. It is still a lovely choora very nice quality overall and probably worth what I paid for it. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 6th November 2005 at 06:11 AM.

8th November 2005, 12:07 PM	#14
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi All I noticed on the feedback that someone else just purchased a sword described as being wootz and it was not I see a pattern forming here and it ain't a crystaline damascus one Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 8th November 2005 at 05:39 PM.

23rd October 2005, 12:41 PM	#2
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi, these rarely had wootz blades, but some did. the seller is quite reputable (not on the internet, but in the arms world - alan cook) so i think his description would not be there to decieve. also, i agree the mount is from a 'shamshir'. if it is wootz (which you can assume it is) its a good price. i like the chisselling on the back spine, and these pieces were normally relatively crude, but this is a nice example. well done.

24th October 2005, 01:16 AM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Gorgeous. Wonder if the hanger mount was used along with some attachment at the scabbard mouth to hang it with a chain? Or maybe the owner just liked the inscription on the mount. Or hung a tassel from it? Very very nice. Steve

24th October 2005, 08:31 PM	#4
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I agree with B.I. Plus, it is bigger than average choora.

5th November 2005, 09:36 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi All The choora arrived today but unfortunately it's not wootz I t is a very nice old example though. I guess even the experts make mistakes. Lew

5th November 2005, 09:44 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I see this seller quite frequently at a local market and I am not sure expert is quite the right term. Tim

6th November 2005, 10:11 AM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hi Lew, it is indeed a very nice example well worth having I just could not resist a gibe at a dealer. Tim

6th November 2005, 11:34 AM	#9
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Lew, it's still a beautiful piece. But I think the seller needs as least a "Neutral" feedback. Have you corresponded with him since you received it? I'd be curious as to his reaction. I notice that he didn't post any closeup pics of the blade on the auction. Could there be a reason for this? It's neat that the metal chape extends up, and covers the whole scabbard. Steve

6th November 2005, 02:12 PM	#10
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Alan Cook does the Timonium show and I have spoken to him on a few occasions at shows in the US and I find him a very nice person willing to talk shop with you. However, I also had a very negative experience with him through Ebay that, in addition to Lew's experience, throws up a slight red flag. I bought a Chinese sword from him through Ebay that he had described as 19th century. While the pictures were not great, I took him at his word as an experienced dealer that should know what he is selling. When it arrived I was extremely dissapointed to find out it was a late 20th century reproduction and very clearly not 19th century. In my correspondance with Alan he stated he had purchased it at an auction house and their description was 19th century so he assumed it was 19th century. I made a list of all the features of the sword that clearly indicated it was a reproduction and mentioned how many reproductions were coming out of China. His response was the he did not know fakes were being made in China. That was quite a dissapointing response from a guy that has been dealing for quite some time. While I am not trying to portray Alan negatively because as I said he was a nice chap in person, we do have a trend here that I think it important to share so that at the least we all learn to ask a few more questions and get a few more pictures if we decide to have further transactions with him.

6th November 2005, 02:49 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	RS, I like the cut of your gibe sir, I have long waited to use that phrase in context. Nice.

7th November 2005, 06:26 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I do agree with Rsword and Ferguson. I with Rsword have had nice dealings with him in person, though I have questioned some of his "understanding" about some things. A neutral would be a good response.

7th November 2005, 02:46 PM	#13
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Lew: Tough break on that one, but I think you got a very nice choora in any case. I was looking at it myself during the auction and was concerned that there was really no picture showing detail of the pattern on the blade (to confirm wootz). Having spoken with Alan Cook at Timonium, I would have to agree with some of the earlier comments -- ethnographic weapons may not be his strongest area of familiarity. Ian.