Moro Twist Core Reborn

mross · 7th March 2010, 10:42 PM

Hello all. Here is an old twist core that has been reborn. I was purchased from Gavin Nugent site; here is a link to it.

http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s201_full.html

The restoration work was collaboration between Philip Tom and Charles Saunders. The works was minimally invasive, but a lot had to be done to bring it back. I can elaborate but if Phil or Charles read this it would be better coming from those that did the actual work.

I wanted to match before and after shots but could not figure out how to do it. I have more photos, but that's all I could do for now. Hope you like it.

mross · 7th March 2010, 10:51 PM

Some more photos.

mross · 7th March 2010, 10:57 PM

More, shots. Maybe not, can't seem to load any more up

Sajen · 7th March 2010, 11:24 PM

My god, very god restore job and very nice twist-core blade! Hope you can upload more pics.

hideyoshi · 7th March 2010, 11:53 PM

Nicely done!

Gavin Nugent · 8th March 2010, 12:39 AM

Congratulations Michael!!

You can not believe how happy I was and surprised I was when whilst talking to Philip on another matter, he mentioned he was putting the finishing touches to some of the lower laying areas of the twistcore pattern Moro kris you obtained from me....as I expressed previously, I got goose bumps...it means a lot to me to see an old and rare warrior like this Kris reborn.

Personally I think it is awesome that you had decided to restore this wonderful and old example of a Moro twistcore. The talents of Philip and Charles are certainly recognised as being at the top of their game and it shows.

Thank you for the before and after shots too, it shows wonderful insight from all involved and it is something many of us would never get to see or understand the methodical approach it takes to achieve an outstanding result.

I would love to see a thread started on completed restoration projects, I know a few of us have them and I too have one ear marked for Philip in the next quarter.

Again Michael, very nice, you must be happy!!

Gav

Atlantia · 8th March 2010, 12:55 AM

Bravo! That is a great job.

Dimasalang · 8th March 2010, 03:27 AM

WOW! Amesome work!

Battara · 8th March 2010, 04:25 AM

Very nice.

Love the twistcore.

kai · 9th March 2010, 01:50 AM

Congrats, Michael, for snapping this up! It's good to see the effort put into this old Sulu warrior.

I believe the central twistcore panel of most Moro kris was supposed to develop a topographic etch (like seen in e. g. many keris Bugis blades) while the edges were kept smooth. That can make repolishing such a blade a pretty difficult task.

Why didn't you replaced the missing silver topping of the upper katik? I bet Jose could have made 2 nice asang-asang to complete the whole piece before replacing the missing grip wrap. More likely than not, there also must have been a silver ferrule and another band of silver near the pommel for such a status piece.

Regards,
Kai

ThePepperSkull · 9th March 2010, 02:05 AM

I absolutely love that you chose to give this piece new life! I find the earlier Sulu Kris to have the most elegant shaping and curvature of this particular style of sword. I also agree with kai. Some silver fittings would be very lovely on this, but I feel as if there is a quiet elegance to how you chose to finish it and I think it looks great as-is. So with that, I must say I am a bit conflicted in how I feel about this as a finished piece. I reiterate that I love the way it looks right now, however.

Perhaps just a couple of asang-asang to keep with that aesthetic you developped already while sheathed?

The revealing of a little shine while unsheathing would be nice and non-invasive to the whole look of the finished piece while sheathed methinks.

CharlesS · 9th March 2010, 02:57 AM

While a silver ferrule and pommel ring might have really added to the piece's appearance, there was absolutely no evidence at all on the hilt that anything other than woven cord was ever there. It appears it was an older piece, simply done, and so we decided to keep to its modest origins.

mross · 9th March 2010, 03:58 AM

More before shots.

mross · 9th March 2010, 04:00 AM

And some after shots.

Philip · 9th March 2010, 04:01 AM

Also, there was a little brass strip alongside the grip that formed an "L" shape and terminated in a point along the short side of the ganja. It's a very thin, flimsy thing. I re-attached it before Charles did the cord wrap, and I could find no evidence that an asang-asang was ever mounted to it. If one of these stirrups were at one time attached there, one would expect the remnant of solder, a "shadow" or ghost in the patination of the metal, something like that. But nada. As Charles said, there was no evidence of metal ferrule or pommel band on the grip, and since this is such an early piece whose hilting may well be the original style, it was decided to restore it conservatively and not add anything.

Likewise, Mike and I agreed that the scabbard should strongly reflect the Malay traditions so evident in the blade, so the replacement sheath was designed accordingly.

mross · 9th March 2010, 04:04 AM

Last few, I apoligize fro the image quality, new camera and I'm just learning it. I just found the manual setting, so i need to figure out how to use it.

mross · 9th March 2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Also, there was a little brass strip alongside the grip that formed an "L" shape and terminated in a point along the short side of the ganja. It's a very thin, flimsy thing. I re-attached it before Charles did the cord wrap, and I could find no evidence that an asang-asang was ever mounted to it. If one of these stirrups were at one time attached there, one would expect the remnant of solder, a "shadow" or ghost in the patination of the metal, something like that. But nada. As Charles said, there was no evidence of metal ferrule or pommel band on the grip, and since this is such an early piece whose hilting may well be the original style, it was decided to restore it conservatively and not add anything.

Likewise, Mike and I agreed that the scabbard should strongly reflect the Malay traditions so evident in the blade, so the replacement sheath was designed accordingly.

If you look at the last picture I posted it shows the brass strip Philip is talking about. It did not look broken, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any ideas?

Bill · 9th March 2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

If you look at the last picture I posted it shows the brass strip Philip is talking about. It did not look broken, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any ideas?

It may have been for a future stirrup. It seems more common to have two separate pieces for the baca-baca; one going around the gangya & then a strip bent around the first piece & down the hilt. The owner might not have had the money for the stirrup but wanted the strip in place before the hilt wrap was done. Then the stirrup could be added latter.

Do you plan on posting your latest twist core? Always interesting to see these "18C" type kris.

hideyoshi · 9th March 2010, 09:54 PM

A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to be seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example.

mross · 9th March 2010, 10:23 PM

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

Gavin Nugent · 9th March 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideyoshi

A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to bee seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example.

Thanks for sharing hideyoshi. I too pondered this greatly when I handled it. Mystery solved.

As for the asang-asang, I could and still can in one image posted see the evidence of this once being true and in place, albiet a long time removed when it first came to me. I was also taken by the hilt binding, it appeared to me multi coloured layers, dark/light, if only there was more of the original to know if the pattern continued to the pommel.
Personal touches are just that personal. My touches would layer stack every 10mm a different lighter colour for effect as many Kris did have this undulating effect on grip wraps...I would even but a couple of thin rattan strips around the scabbrd for effect...again, my personal touches.

I'll see how my computing skills are when I get home and maybe with some tuition put some pointer arrows on the image that shows where I think the asang-asang was.

Gav

Rick · 9th March 2010, 10:41 PM

I have a problem with this piece .
The resto is very nice .
But
I don't believe that the hilt is original to the piece, rather a later replacement of the original .

The hilt is not the same caliber of quality as the kris .
It may have lost its stirrups so long ago that there is no trace of their existence left .

hideyoshi · 9th March 2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

This are so thinly covering to the guard, the tang portion was pre-cut and the plate is stapled with 3-4 tinny spikes into the metal guard and then finally re-inforced with the clamp/asang-asang, most i've seen had been badly damaged. Your's is missing the grenning side covering of the guard.

mross · 9th March 2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideyoshi

This are so thinly covering to the guard, the tang portion was pre-cut and the plate is stapled with 3-4 tinny spikes into the metal guard and then finally inforced with the clamp/asang-asang, most i've seen had been badly damaged. Your's is missing the grenning side covering of the guard.

Looks that way. That seems to support Rick's thoughts about a replacement hilt. The grenning side was lost during the re-hilt. I can buy that. If anyone is wondering the original wrap is not lost, it was saved.

ThePepperSkull · 10th March 2010, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

Definitely could have been there for decorative purposes. I have seen some Keris Sundang Melayu with baca-baca that were similarly not attatched to any stirrups as well.

Gavin Nugent · 10th March 2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Looks that way. That seems to support Rick's thoughts about a replacement hilt. The grenning side was lost during the re-hilt. I can buy that. If anyone is wondering the original wrap is not lost, it was saved.

Great to hear. I never did look at it too close but is appeared to be very unusual, what material do you think it is? I kinda got an old knitted wool kinda feel but the 2 brain cells are struggling to recall.

Gav

mross · 11th March 2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Great to hear. I never did look at it too close but is appeared to be very unusual, what material do you think it is? I kinda got an old knitted wool kinda feel but the 2 brain cells are struggling to recall.

Gav

No idea, as I know nothing of Philippine textiles. I'm taking a guess and saying; pinya cloth, a sheer fabric made of fibers of the leaf of the pineapple plant, I found it on a Philippine Textile web site.

Bill · 12th March 2010, 12:27 AM

Interesting pic from a members website, from a sword that doesn't appear to have been worked on for sometime.

Rick · 12th March 2010, 12:49 AM

I respectfully suggest that the one shown in the link is much more recent .

Sorry for the edit Bill, but tis agin the rules to post items for sale in the discussion forums .

Bill · 12th March 2010, 06:14 AM

Sorry didn't mean to break the rules. Didn't mean the original posting but the later example. I don't have a good knowledge of metals but trying to attach/adhere two different metals is tough.
A flimsy piece of metal won't stick to the steel blade.
My first thought was later functionality.
Appears there's something more.
Perhaps it is just decoration, but I 'm somewhat leery of that.
Talismanic?

This is a great posting, in the sense of, restoration vs. preserving.
I don't think the hilt represents the original sword & on the other hand, changing the wear, removes history/use.

It is easy to see that many of these swords are being "updated". I'm guilty of repairing/replacing. Difference between nickel & silver is only $10/less in most cases of repairs. The original sword, in this posting deserves better dress & on the other hand, it should be preserved. Don't know right answer.

7th March 2010, 10:42 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Moro Twist Core Reborn Hello all. Here is an old twist core that has been reborn. I was purchased from Gavin Nugent site; here is a link to it. http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s201_full.html The restoration work was collaboration between Philip Tom and Charles Saunders. The works was minimally invasive, but a lot had to be done to bring it back. I can elaborate but if Phil or Charles read this it would be better coming from those that did the actual work. I wanted to match before and after shots but could not figure out how to do it. I have more photos, but that's all I could do for now. Hope you like it. Attached Images

7th March 2010, 10:51 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Some more photos. Attached Images

8th March 2010, 12:39 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Awesome Congratulations Michael!! You can not believe how happy I was and surprised I was when whilst talking to Philip on another matter, he mentioned he was putting the finishing touches to some of the lower laying areas of the twistcore pattern Moro kris you obtained from me....as I expressed previously, I got goose bumps...it means a lot to me to see an old and rare warrior like this Kris reborn. Personally I think it is awesome that you had decided to restore this wonderful and old example of a Moro twistcore. The talents of Philip and Charles are certainly recognised as being at the top of their game and it shows. Thank you for the before and after shots too, it shows wonderful insight from all involved and it is something many of us would never get to see or understand the methodical approach it takes to achieve an outstanding result. I would love to see a thread started on completed restoration projects, I know a few of us have them and I too have one ear marked for Philip in the next quarter. Again Michael, very nice, you must be happy!! Gav

9th March 2010, 03:58 AM	#13
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	More before shots. Attached Images

9th March 2010, 04:00 AM	#14
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	And some after shots. Attached Images

7th March 2010, 10:57 PM	#3
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	More, shots. Maybe not, can't seem to load any more up

7th March 2010, 11:24 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,771	My god, very god restore job and very nice twist-core blade! Hope you can upload more pics.

7th March 2010, 11:53 PM	#5
hideyoshi Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58	Nicely done!

8th March 2010, 12:55 AM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Bravo! That is a great job.

8th March 2010, 03:27 AM	#8
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	WOW! Amesome work!

8th March 2010, 04:25 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Very nice. Love the twistcore.

9th March 2010, 01:50 AM	#10
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, Michael, for snapping this up! It's good to see the effort put into this old Sulu warrior. I believe the central twistcore panel of most Moro kris was supposed to develop a topographic etch (like seen in e. g. many keris Bugis blades) while the edges were kept smooth. That can make repolishing such a blade a pretty difficult task. Why didn't you replaced the missing silver topping of the upper katik? I bet Jose could have made 2 nice asang-asang to complete the whole piece before replacing the missing grip wrap. More likely than not, there also must have been a silver ferrule and another band of silver near the pommel for such a status piece. Regards, Kai

9th March 2010, 02:05 AM	#11
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	I absolutely love that you chose to give this piece new life! I find the earlier Sulu Kris to have the most elegant shaping and curvature of this particular style of sword. I also agree with kai. Some silver fittings would be very lovely on this, but I feel as if there is a quiet elegance to how you chose to finish it and I think it looks great as-is. So with that, I must say I am a bit conflicted in how I feel about this as a finished piece. I reiterate that I love the way it looks right now, however. Perhaps just a couple of asang-asang to keep with that aesthetic you developped already while sheathed? The revealing of a little shine while unsheathing would be nice and non-invasive to the whole look of the finished piece while sheathed methinks.

9th March 2010, 02:57 AM	#12
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	While a silver ferrule and pommel ring might have really added to the piece's appearance, there was absolutely no evidence at all on the hilt that anything other than woven cord was ever there. It appears it was an older piece, simply done, and so we decided to keep to its modest origins.

9th March 2010, 04:01 AM	#15
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Also, there was a little brass strip alongside the grip that formed an "L" shape and terminated in a point along the short side of the ganja. It's a very thin, flimsy thing. I re-attached it before Charles did the cord wrap, and I could find no evidence that an asang-asang was ever mounted to it. If one of these stirrups were at one time attached there, one would expect the remnant of solder, a "shadow" or ghost in the patination of the metal, something like that. But nada. As Charles said, there was no evidence of metal ferrule or pommel band on the grip, and since this is such an early piece whose hilting may well be the original style, it was decided to restore it conservatively and not add anything. Likewise, Mike and I agreed that the scabbard should strongly reflect the Malay traditions so evident in the blade, so the replacement sheath was designed accordingly.

9th March 2010, 04:04 AM	#16
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Last few, I apoligize fro the image quality, new camera and I'm just learning it. I just found the manual setting, so i need to figure out how to use it. Attached Images

9th March 2010, 09:54 PM	#19
hideyoshi Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58	A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to be seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example. Attached Images Last edited by hideyoshi; 9th March 2010 at 10:32 PM.

9th March 2010, 10:23 PM	#20
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

9th March 2010, 10:41 PM	#22
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I have a problem with this piece . The resto is very nice . But I don't believe that the hilt is original to the piece, rather a later replacement of the original . The hilt is not the same caliber of quality as the kris . It may have lost its stirrups so long ago that there is no trace of their existence left .

12th March 2010, 12:27 AM	#28
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Interesting pic from a members website, from a sword that doesn't appear to have been worked on for sometime. Last edited by Rick; 12th March 2010 at 12:51 AM. Reason: item for sale

12th March 2010, 12:49 AM	#29
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I respectfully suggest that the one shown in the link is much more recent . Sorry for the edit Bill, but tis agin the rules to post items for sale in the discussion forums .

12th March 2010, 06:14 AM	#30
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Sorry didn't mean to break the rules. Didn't mean the original posting but the later example. I don't have a good knowledge of metals but trying to attach/adhere two different metals is tough. A flimsy piece of metal won't stick to the steel blade. My first thought was later functionality. Appears there's something more. Perhaps it is just decoration, but I 'm somewhat leery of that. Talismanic? This is a great posting, in the sense of, restoration vs. preserving. I don't think the hilt represents the original sword & on the other hand, changing the wear, removes history/use. It is easy to see that many of these swords are being "updated". I'm guilty of repairing/replacing. Difference between nickel & silver is only $10/less in most cases of repairs. The original sword, in this posting deserves better dress & on the other hand, it should be preserved. Don't know right answer.