Keris Blambangan Pamor Nyekrak

Karttikeya · 9th December 2011, 01:44 PM

Just for sharing...Dapur Tilam Upih, pamor Ujung Gunung or any opinions are welcome. Can we call this pamor type as pamor luluhan or only pamor nyekrak (I do not know how to translate it in English)? If we touch the blade with finger, we will find that pamor layer is sharp with irregularly surface. I am wondering what is the different between pamor miring and pamor nyekrak, which one more difficult to be made? To my eye, this keris possesses features of Blambangan keris, but I think Madura made also can be accepted.

A. G. Maisey · 9th December 2011, 09:17 PM

Karttikeya

Ujung gunung is pamor miring .

All pamor miring motifs are manufactured by a method which incorporates the manipulation of the layers of pamor to an angle of 90 degrees, that is, it changes the orientation of the layers of pamor material from horizontal to vertical.

Can you provide a photo looking down onto the gonjo from end to end, so that we may see both the sirah cecak and the buntut urang.

About the terms "luluhan" and "nyekrak".

These words are not a part of the usual keris vocabulary in the circles in which I move. Harsrinuksmo appears not to list the terms, Haryoguritno appears not to use the terms.

I do not understand what these two words convey to you in a keris related sense.

If you can explain your understanding of these two words in Indonesian I will be happy to translate to English, and we may be able to help. I can guess the meanings in a non-keris related sense, but for clarity we need to know your understanding of these words as they apply to the keris.

If the moderators have a problem with the posting of a language other than English to this thread, please advise, and Karttikeya can send me his explanation by private message.

Karttikeya · 10th December 2011, 03:35 AM

Pak Alan, probably these 2 photographs of ganja can satisfy your request athough not too obvious I think, sorry. Somebody told me that pamor nyekrak is a term of pamor miring type which refers to rough and sharp surface, seems like done by kamalan method (again, I do not know how to translate kamalan word in English). Frankly, I do not know about that

Regarding pamor luluhan, actually no one has told me the meaning of that, but I ever read that pamor luluhan is related to pamor Pitrang

Sorry I cannot explain anymore because I do not know..

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2011, 04:31 AM

Thanks for the pics Karttikeya.

From what I can see in the photos you've provided, I'm inclined towards classification of this blade as Tuban. The usual qualification:- if I held it in my hand, my opinion could easily change.

Regarding the terms, luluhan and nyekrak.

If you do not have any idea of what these terms convey to you, then I can't really offer much assistance.

Personally I would understand pamor luluhan to be a melted pamor, one where the temperature had become too high during the welding, and the materials melted into one another, rather than forming a motif with clearly defined boundaries to the contrasting materials.

Pamor nyekrak I cannot recall having heard used, but I guess it means "bent", same as mbengkok --- "krak" = bent. I cannot understand how it could refer to blade surface with high relief, unless the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent.

Pamor pitrang I don't know, Empu Pitrang, I do know --- Empu Supo when he was Blambangan.

Karttikeya, I would most respectfully suggest that when somebody uses a word that you do not understand, you should immediately ask for an explanation of that word. There is no shame in not understanding a word:- word meanings can change depending on context and depending on who uses them. This is most particularly true in Jawa , because Javanese is classified by linguists as a non-standardised language.

Then there is the propensity of Javanese people to follow the Humpty Dumpty rule:- " when I use a word it means exactly what I wish it to mean, no more, and no less" (Through the Looking Glass)

These things together can make a clear understanding of precisely what is meant in Javanese colloquial speech a little bit difficult sometimes. Even for native speakers of the language.

Jean · 10th December 2011, 02:56 PM

Pamor luluhan is mentioned and described on page 340 of the EK.
Best regards

Karttikeya · 10th December 2011, 03:47 PM

Pak Alan, I don't think that nyekrak means bent or bengkok in Bahasa. Actually I do not know what is translation of nyekrak in Bahasa, but I am sure nyekrak does not mean bent. Maybe anybody can help to translate nyekrak in Bahasa or even English is much better. Even if nyekrak means bent or bengkok and referred to your statement that "the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent." I still cannot imagine that. If you handle this blade then you will know what I mean nyekrak, anyway I believe you already knew it in fact. Or probably you can see the photographs of sor-soran, I think these 2 photos are quite clear which impress high relief surface. Not all pamor miring are nyekrak, but all pamor nyekrak are definitely pamor miring. If we see low and slanted gandik and gilig blade (again, I do not know how to translate gilig in English), I deal with Blambangan blade.

9th December 2011, 01:44 PM	#1
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Keris Blambangan Pamor Nyekrak Just for sharing...Dapur Tilam Upih, pamor Ujung Gunung or any opinions are welcome. Can we call this pamor type as pamor luluhan or only pamor nyekrak (I do not know how to translate it in English)? If we touch the blade with finger, we will find that pamor layer is sharp with irregularly surface. I am wondering what is the different between pamor miring and pamor nyekrak, which one more difficult to be made? To my eye, this keris possesses features of Blambangan keris, but I think Madura made also can be accepted. Attached Images

10th December 2011, 03:35 AM	#3
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Pak Alan, probably these 2 photographs of ganja can satisfy your request athough not too obvious I think, sorry. Somebody told me that pamor nyekrak is a term of pamor miring type which refers to rough and sharp surface, seems like done by kamalan method (again, I do not know how to translate kamalan word in English). Frankly, I do not know about that Regarding pamor luluhan, actually no one has told me the meaning of that, but I ever read that pamor luluhan is related to pamor Pitrang Sorry I cannot explain anymore because I do not know.. Attached Images

9th December 2011, 09:17 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	Karttikeya Ujung gunung is pamor miring . All pamor miring motifs are manufactured by a method which incorporates the manipulation of the layers of pamor to an angle of 90 degrees, that is, it changes the orientation of the layers of pamor material from horizontal to vertical. Can you provide a photo looking down onto the gonjo from end to end, so that we may see both the sirah cecak and the buntut urang. About the terms "luluhan" and "nyekrak". These words are not a part of the usual keris vocabulary in the circles in which I move. Harsrinuksmo appears not to list the terms, Haryoguritno appears not to use the terms. I do not understand what these two words convey to you in a keris related sense. If you can explain your understanding of these two words in Indonesian I will be happy to translate to English, and we may be able to help. I can guess the meanings in a non-keris related sense, but for clarity we need to know your understanding of these words as they apply to the keris. If the moderators have a problem with the posting of a language other than English to this thread, please advise, and Karttikeya can send me his explanation by private message.

10th December 2011, 04:31 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	Thanks for the pics Karttikeya. From what I can see in the photos you've provided, I'm inclined towards classification of this blade as Tuban. The usual qualification:- if I held it in my hand, my opinion could easily change. Regarding the terms, luluhan and nyekrak. If you do not have any idea of what these terms convey to you, then I can't really offer much assistance. Personally I would understand pamor luluhan to be a melted pamor, one where the temperature had become too high during the welding, and the materials melted into one another, rather than forming a motif with clearly defined boundaries to the contrasting materials. Pamor nyekrak I cannot recall having heard used, but I guess it means "bent", same as mbengkok --- "krak" = bent. I cannot understand how it could refer to blade surface with high relief, unless the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent. Pamor pitrang I don't know, Empu Pitrang, I do know --- Empu Supo when he was Blambangan. Karttikeya, I would most respectfully suggest that when somebody uses a word that you do not understand, you should immediately ask for an explanation of that word. There is no shame in not understanding a word:- word meanings can change depending on context and depending on who uses them. This is most particularly true in Jawa , because Javanese is classified by linguists as a non-standardised language. Then there is the propensity of Javanese people to follow the Humpty Dumpty rule:- " when I use a word it means exactly what I wish it to mean, no more, and no less" (Through the Looking Glass) These things together can make a clear understanding of precisely what is meant in Javanese colloquial speech a little bit difficult sometimes. Even for native speakers of the language.

10th December 2011, 02:56 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Pamor luluhan is mentioned and described on page 340 of the EK. Best regards

10th December 2011, 03:47 PM	#6
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Pak Alan, I don't think that nyekrak means bent or bengkok in Bahasa. Actually I do not know what is translation of nyekrak in Bahasa, but I am sure nyekrak does not mean bent. Maybe anybody can help to translate nyekrak in Bahasa or even English is much better. Even if nyekrak means bent or bengkok and referred to your statement that "the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent." I still cannot imagine that. If you handle this blade then you will know what I mean nyekrak, anyway I believe you already knew it in fact. Or probably you can see the photographs of sor-soran, I think these 2 photos are quite clear which impress high relief surface. Not all pamor miring are nyekrak, but all pamor nyekrak are definitely pamor miring. If we see low and slanted gandik and gilig blade (again, I do not know how to translate gilig in English), I deal with Blambangan blade.