Keris Pair Heirloom Pieces

kuantan · 8th September 2011, 02:04 PM

G'Day from Downunder,

First post on the forum and want to share some pics of two keris which were pass down to me by my father. They have been sitting in storage for many years and I finally decided to give them a freshen-up.

Been corresponding with Alan who has been extremely helpful and reading previous posts on cleaning process for keris. Both sitting in pineapple juice now so hope to be able to update with pics as they go through the process.

Don't know much about them, only that they may have originated from Kelantan, Malaysia. Is it possible to identify age, maker or types of metals used?

Here are some pics for starters.

Thanks all for looking.

Cheers

David · 8th September 2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuantan

Is it possible to identify age, maker or types of metals used?
Here are some pics for starters.

Hi Kuantan, welcome to the forum.

The questions you ask are all pretty tricky. I think it's safe to say that your examples are authentic antiques, but nailing down an age can be more difficult. Makers names are near impossible without some provenance. Sometimes a particular empus work can be assumed by the style and workmanship, but you can never be sure. Most keris we see are not made by known empus, but by unknown village smiths who often do there best to emulate the keraton empus.
Your first example is unfortunately missing a piece, the gonjo. This is the separate piece that sits between the blade and hilt ensemble. The sheath is also missing the buntet, the toe piece at the end of the stem.
Your second keris is a much more sophisticated blade. It looks like a nice example of this form. We have a few members who specialize in Peninsula keris like these that will probably have much more to say about them.
I look forward to seeing them after cleaning.

kai · 9th September 2011, 09:14 AM

Welcome to the forum!

The straight keris has a classic pandai seras blade from the northern Malay areas. It does seem to be antique and of well above-average quality. I just hope that the corrosion close to the tip is not too deep. The fittings do look "newish" to me - post WW2 IMHO.

The keris with 9 luk has a typical Malay blade: antique and I've seen several examples with missing gonjo that seemed to have been kept in use over a longer period. Maybe our Malay forum members can comment on the need of replacing it from a traditional point of view?

IMHO the fittings clearly point to a Terengganu origin for the whole ensemble; classic Terengganu sampir and pipit teleng hilt. The missing buntut is a relatively easy fix but make sure you get an idea of antique scabbards from that area before starting the carving work.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11592

Some close-ups from the pendokok (inside view, too) and the hilts would be good for additional information. The Terengganu pendokok could be silver but also other materials like white brass or tin were in use in that area; the other one should be brass.

One note of caution: While pineapple juice is pretty gentle, do avoid unnecessary long exposure and invest in a lot of elbow grease and picking off stubborn rust specks with wooden picks and, if needed, needles. Most Malay keris blades are traditionally kept in polished (or almost polished) condition and the metal surface should be kept smooth while overdoing the cleaning and staining process can result in a rough blade surface.

Regards,
Kai

BluErf · 10th September 2011, 05:04 AM

Can I request for pictures of the hulu on the second keris please. Also, a side view of the sampir of the second keris please. Tks!

PenangsangII · 10th September 2011, 05:23 AM

The Busgis styled malay blade looks very well made, and certainly has some age to it....maybe around 200 yrs old...cant tell for sure though.

However, I have this weird feeling towards the straight keris (dapur pandai saras).

kuantan · 10th September 2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The Busgis styled malay blade looks very well made, and certainly has some age to it....maybe around 200 yrs old...cant tell for sure though.

However, I have this weird feeling towards the straight keris (dapur pandai saras).

Thanks for the reply PenangsangII. I'm no expert when it comes to appraising keris but it certainly feels like a quality blade. Smooth to the touch with very fine layering to the blade metal. But what would this weird feeling towards straight keris that you have?

kuantan · 10th September 2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Can I request for pictures of the hulu on the second keris please. Also, a side view of the sampir of the second keris please. Tks!

Hi Blu,

Pics as requested.

kuantan · 10th September 2011, 05:14 AM

David, Kai, thanks for the warm welcome.

Excellent feedback learning plenty.

Aware that the keris with 9 luk was missing the gonjo & buntut. Have notice as far back as I can remember while both keris were in my father's keeping. Never had the opportunity to ask him about both pieces as he passed on in my early teens. Would have certainly add to their provenance. BTW what is the purpose of having the gonjo a separate piece to the rest of the blade?

The rust at the tip seems too have ceased at a base metal or fews layers into the metal but the portion affected still has its rigidity and does not seem to be at risk of bending or rotting off.

Kai regarding the missing buntut, would a replacement need to be made from scratch? Or would it be possible to pick one in Malaysia or Singapore?

Finally regarding cleaning, once rinse the blade starts to develop a yellowish tinge of rust as it dries. Does this mean it needs for time in the process of pineapple juice?

I've included some more pics of the pendokok of both keris and their fittings.

8th September 2011, 02:04 PM	#1
kuantan Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4	Keris Pair Heirloom Pieces G'Day from Downunder, First post on the forum and want to share some pics of two keris which were pass down to me by my father. They have been sitting in storage for many years and I finally decided to give them a freshen-up. Been corresponding with Alan who has been extremely helpful and reading previous posts on cleaning process for keris. Both sitting in pineapple juice now so hope to be able to update with pics as they go through the process. Don't know much about them, only that they may have originated from Kelantan, Malaysia. Is it possible to identify age, maker or types of metals used? Here are some pics for starters. Thanks all for looking. Cheers Attached Images

10th September 2011, 05:14 AM	#8
kuantan Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4	David, Kai, thanks for the warm welcome. Excellent feedback learning plenty. Aware that the keris with 9 luk was missing the gonjo & buntut. Have notice as far back as I can remember while both keris were in my father's keeping. Never had the opportunity to ask him about both pieces as he passed on in my early teens. Would have certainly add to their provenance. BTW what is the purpose of having the gonjo a separate piece to the rest of the blade? The rust at the tip seems too have ceased at a base metal or fews layers into the metal but the portion affected still has its rigidity and does not seem to be at risk of bending or rotting off. Kai regarding the missing buntut, would a replacement need to be made from scratch? Or would it be possible to pick one in Malaysia or Singapore? Finally regarding cleaning, once rinse the blade starts to develop a yellowish tinge of rust as it dries. Does this mean it needs for time in the process of pineapple juice? I've included some more pics of the pendokok of both keris and their fittings. Attached Images

9th September 2011, 09:14 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Welcome to the forum! The straight keris has a classic pandai seras blade from the northern Malay areas. It does seem to be antique and of well above-average quality. I just hope that the corrosion close to the tip is not too deep. The fittings do look "newish" to me - post WW2 IMHO. The keris with 9 luk has a typical Malay blade: antique and I've seen several examples with missing gonjo that seemed to have been kept in use over a longer period. Maybe our Malay forum members can comment on the need of replacing it from a traditional point of view? IMHO the fittings clearly point to a Terengganu origin for the whole ensemble; classic Terengganu sampir and pipit teleng hilt. The missing buntut is a relatively easy fix but make sure you get an idea of antique scabbards from that area before starting the carving work. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11592 Some close-ups from the pendokok (inside view, too) and the hilts would be good for additional information. The Terengganu pendokok could be silver but also other materials like white brass or tin were in use in that area; the other one should be brass. One note of caution: While pineapple juice is pretty gentle, do avoid unnecessary long exposure and invest in a lot of elbow grease and picking off stubborn rust specks with wooden picks and, if needed, needles. Most Malay keris blades are traditionally kept in polished (or almost polished) condition and the metal surface should be kept smooth while overdoing the cleaning and staining process can result in a rough blade surface. Regards, Kai

10th September 2011, 05:04 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Can I request for pictures of the hulu on the second keris please. Also, a side view of the sampir of the second keris please. Tks!

10th September 2011, 05:23 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	The Busgis styled malay blade looks very well made, and certainly has some age to it....maybe around 200 yrs old...cant tell for sure though. However, I have this weird feeling towards the straight keris (dapur pandai saras).