Malay badik for comment.

[Athanase]

Hello and Happy New Year to everyone!

I acquired this knife in the same lot (of English origin) as the Malaysian "pseudo gunong" that I showed you a few weeks ago.

The blade is very unusual, it looks like a small Malay keris that has been resized to make a badik. What do you think?

[kai]

Hello Séverin,

Nice find. Looks like this is a Sumatran "badik" - blade made from a recycled Sumatran keris, indeed (of Minang origin, I guess).

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Hello Séverin,

would agree with Kai but this badik has a lot accordance with Java badiks, for example the hilt form.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

this badik has a lot accordance with Java badiks, for example the hilt form.

This hilt is pretty generic and found from Sulawesi, over Jawa and Sunda(?) to Sumatra.

The scabbard seems typical for Sumatra though.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

This hilt is pretty generic and found from Sulawesi, over Jawa and Sunda(?) to Sumatra.

Hello Kai,
I should have been more clear in my statement, yes the form of the handle is pretty generic but the angle of the handle to the blade tang is very different, Java badiks show an angle slightly over 90 degree while all other badiks have an angle to maximum from 90 degree. That was meant!

Originally Posted by kai

The scabbard seems typical for Sumatra though.

Agree complete!

Regards,
Detlef

[Athanase]

Thank you Detlef and Kai for your answers.

[kai]

You're welcome, Séverin - please keep them coming!

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

I should have been more clear in my statement, yes the form of the handle is pretty generic but the angle of the handle to the blade tang is very different, Java badiks show an angle slightly over 90 degree while all other badiks have an angle to maximum from 90 degree. That was meant!

I'm not sure I understand - do you rather mean 135° or so? (90°+45°)

For this specific hilt type, I believe I've seen examples from Sulawesi in the 110°-162° range; for Sumatra, I'd estimate an 120°-150° angle or so. (I wouldn't be surprised to find an even larger range for both origins. I have a Sumatran wooden hilt close to this type which exhibits 105° - wooden hilts tend to include steeper as well as wider angles though.) Those attributed to Jawa often hone in on approx. 125°-135° (I'd stipulate that most origins are tough to verify though).

This example apparently was around 122° originally (I'd posit that the blade is a bit tilted which makes it look steeper angled nowadays, possibly 111°).

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Hello Kai,

it's not so complicated like you think!

See the both attached pictures, the first show a typical Bugis badik, I've attached a 90° chevron under the handle, second picture show a typical Javanese badik which has a chevron clearly over 90° like the badik in question. Hope you understand now what I mean.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

it's not so complicated like you think!

Well, I posit it's also not as easy as it seems...

See the both attached pictures, the first show a typical Bugis badik, I've attached a 90° chevron under the handle, second picture show a typical Javanese badik which has a chevron clearly over 90° like the badik in question.

I'm only speaking of the hilt type on the right; the left is different (angles, proportions, etc.) and also known from Sumatra. With the Bugis diaspora all over the place, it may be difficult to distinguish between Bugis examples and localized adaptations though.

The curved blades make it difficult to measure the angle; the hilt on the right side is close to 135° (the other is not really comparable but the base of the blade or tang is about 100°, or about 90° when following the whole blade).

Regards,
Kai