new takouba and I'm stumped

Iain · 8th December 2010, 06:47 PM

I need a bit of ID help here. Got this in the mail today, apologies in advance for less than perfect pictures flat is a bit of a mess at the moment and my usual setup wasn't available.

This takouba has me scratching my head. I've seen solid brass hilts before, but never this level of detail from what was obviously a lost wax cast. Additionally it is hollow inside and appears to have a cast core in the center housing the tang - pretty complex. The material I assume is bras.. but it is awfully shiny and not at all like other brass takouba hilts I have. Not recent, there is a lot of age pitting. Also none magnetic and doesn't want to stain with a bit of vinegar. I'd hesitate to say gold plating, but it's not like any native brass I've seen before. The stacked pommel seems like a precursor of the Tuareg style, very architectural feel.

The blade is another weird thing, it looks kind of bad

but actually has good spring, I was pretty surprised. Bit soft but that's expected with these native forged blades. The other thing that surprised me is, I have one other solid hilt, it was pretty dull seemed more ceremonial perhaps. So I figured likely the same on this one. Wrong... Nice and sharp, few edge nicks from blade on blade contact and a couple of dents. Obviously been fought with. The fullers are forged in, you can see the breaks where the smith didn't exactly get them lined up perfectly.

The blade has a lot of deep pitting and age. Distal taper is evident. Doesn't not fit the profile of other blades I have, I'm certain it isn't Hausa made, certainly not Tuareg. Any in case anyone asks, yes the pictures are correct in showing a slight cant in how the blade is mounted. Seems intentional.

I'm stumped. Anybody see anything to ID an ethnic group from the hilt decoration? Casting style? Anything? I'm very intrigued by this one. Any comments appreciated.

Iain · 9th December 2010, 05:46 PM

Nobody has thoughts or comments on this piece? I'm surprised.

VANDOO · 9th December 2010, 11:23 PM

I SUSPECT THE HANDLE MAY BE YORUBA WORK. THE BENIN EMPIRE WAS NOTED FOR ITS CASTING AND A BENIN RULER WHO WAS DRIVEN OUT BECAME THE RULER OF THE YORUBA AND THEY ALSO DO GOOD BRASS AND BRONZE CASTING. SEARCH BENIN EMPIRE ( 1440 TO 1897) (LOCATED IN AREA OF TODAYS NIGERIA) NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE CURRENT AFRICAN COUNTRY CALLED BENIN.
A VERY ATTRACTIVE ITEM AND PROBABLY BELONGED TO SOMEONE OF HIGH RANK ESPECIALLY IF IT IS GOLD PLATED.

Battara · 9th December 2010, 11:50 PM

You know as I look at this I would venture to say it is gold or gold plated. The only way to tell for sure is for a jeweler to do a scratch test from inside the hilt, then they would be able to tell for sure if gold or gold plate.

I tested a gold nimcha that Rsword has and to both our surprises it was above 10k gold. Go to a jewelry store and find out - would be worth it.

Either way, nice nobility piece.

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2010, 02:53 AM

I am inclined to agree with Vandoo's assessment in the probable region where this sword must be from, and the central fullering is similar to the takoubas, but rather roughly applied. In some spots the fullers are disconnected. While perhaps not Hausa, the blade seems to be reflecting that influence.

The yellow metal hilt is unusual and cast, corresponding to metalwork of these areas as well as Mossi and some others like the Dogon, who I believe have cast hilts. If this sword was possibly regalia it very well could be gold plated, but in agreeing with Battara, if high grade gilt might be worth $$$.

The architecturally structured disposition of the hilt might suggest an important sword as far as regalia or tribal person of rank. The pommel does seem to reflect the pyramidal shape on takoubas.

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 10th December 2010, 08:33 AM

Thanks for the comments guys.

Vandoo and Jim; I was also thinking this general area. There is a long history of interaction between the Yoruba and Hausa. The Yoruba are noted for iron working as well as casting. So it would make sense to me that this could be a native Yoruba blade, crudely imitating a more typical takouba. Obviously when paired with the hilt though it was not considered of inferior craftsmanship. The blade is surprisingly "ok" as I noted before there is some flex and it is sharp. I'm sure it is original to the hilt as from what I can see the method of mounting appears to have been the mold made up for the hilt filled with the base metal (I assume brass) of the cast and then the blade actually inserted while the metal was still liquid, the blade is absolutely firm in the hilt.

Battara; thanks for giving me hope on the gold plate. I did another vinegar test and thought I might have seen some reddish stain developing but I'm not sure. Also did the taste test and it does seem a bit coppery. Regardless I will take it to a jeweler when I can find one here in Prague who can test it. Was gold ever mixed with brass for casting? Initial online research seems to indicate that brass was pretty flexible as an alloy.

Many thanks again guys for the comments and thoughts. I'm liking this piece more and more.

8th December 2010, 06:47 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	new takouba and I'm stumped I need a bit of ID help here. Got this in the mail today, apologies in advance for less than perfect pictures flat is a bit of a mess at the moment and my usual setup wasn't available. This takouba has me scratching my head. I've seen solid brass hilts before, but never this level of detail from what was obviously a lost wax cast. Additionally it is hollow inside and appears to have a cast core in the center housing the tang - pretty complex. The material I assume is bras.. but it is awfully shiny and not at all like other brass takouba hilts I have. Not recent, there is a lot of age pitting. Also none magnetic and doesn't want to stain with a bit of vinegar. I'd hesitate to say gold plating, but it's not like any native brass I've seen before. The stacked pommel seems like a precursor of the Tuareg style, very architectural feel. The blade is another weird thing, it looks kind of bad but actually has good spring, I was pretty surprised. Bit soft but that's expected with these native forged blades. The other thing that surprised me is, I have one other solid hilt, it was pretty dull seemed more ceremonial perhaps. So I figured likely the same on this one. Wrong... Nice and sharp, few edge nicks from blade on blade contact and a couple of dents. Obviously been fought with. The fullers are forged in, you can see the breaks where the smith didn't exactly get them lined up perfectly. The blade has a lot of deep pitting and age. Distal taper is evident. Doesn't not fit the profile of other blades I have, I'm certain it isn't Hausa made, certainly not Tuareg. Any in case anyone asks, yes the pictures are correct in showing a slight cant in how the blade is mounted. Seems intentional. I'm stumped. Anybody see anything to ID an ethnic group from the hilt decoration? Casting style? Anything? I'm very intrigued by this one. Any comments appreciated. Attached Images

9th December 2010, 05:46 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Nobody has thoughts or comments on this piece? I'm surprised.

9th December 2010, 11:23 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I SUSPECT THE HANDLE MAY BE YORUBA WORK. THE BENIN EMPIRE WAS NOTED FOR ITS CASTING AND A BENIN RULER WHO WAS DRIVEN OUT BECAME THE RULER OF THE YORUBA AND THEY ALSO DO GOOD BRASS AND BRONZE CASTING. SEARCH BENIN EMPIRE ( 1440 TO 1897) (LOCATED IN AREA OF TODAYS NIGERIA) NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE CURRENT AFRICAN COUNTRY CALLED BENIN. A VERY ATTRACTIVE ITEM AND PROBABLY BELONGED TO SOMEONE OF HIGH RANK ESPECIALLY IF IT IS GOLD PLATED.

9th December 2010, 11:50 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	You know as I look at this I would venture to say it is gold or gold plated. The only way to tell for sure is for a jeweler to do a scratch test from inside the hilt, then they would be able to tell for sure if gold or gold plate. I tested a gold nimcha that Rsword has and to both our surprises it was above 10k gold. Go to a jewelry store and find out - would be worth it. Either way, nice nobility piece.

10th December 2010, 02:53 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,950	I am inclined to agree with Vandoo's assessment in the probable region where this sword must be from, and the central fullering is similar to the takoubas, but rather roughly applied. In some spots the fullers are disconnected. While perhaps not Hausa, the blade seems to be reflecting that influence. The yellow metal hilt is unusual and cast, corresponding to metalwork of these areas as well as Mossi and some others like the Dogon, who I believe have cast hilts. If this sword was possibly regalia it very well could be gold plated, but in agreeing with Battara, if high grade gilt might be worth $$$. The architecturally structured disposition of the hilt might suggest an important sword as far as regalia or tribal person of rank. The pommel does seem to reflect the pyramidal shape on takoubas. All the best, Jim

10th December 2010, 08:33 AM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Thanks for the comments guys. Vandoo and Jim; I was also thinking this general area. There is a long history of interaction between the Yoruba and Hausa. The Yoruba are noted for iron working as well as casting. So it would make sense to me that this could be a native Yoruba blade, crudely imitating a more typical takouba. Obviously when paired with the hilt though it was not considered of inferior craftsmanship. The blade is surprisingly "ok" as I noted before there is some flex and it is sharp. I'm sure it is original to the hilt as from what I can see the method of mounting appears to have been the mold made up for the hilt filled with the base metal (I assume brass) of the cast and then the blade actually inserted while the metal was still liquid, the blade is absolutely firm in the hilt. Battara; thanks for giving me hope on the gold plate. I did another vinegar test and thought I might have seen some reddish stain developing but I'm not sure. Also did the taste test and it does seem a bit coppery. Regardless I will take it to a jeweler when I can find one here in Prague who can test it. Was gold ever mixed with brass for casting? Initial online research seems to indicate that brass was pretty flexible as an alloy. Many thanks again guys for the comments and thoughts. I'm liking this piece more and more.