Tibetan Saddle

rand · 7th September 2007, 08:28 PM

Tibetan Saddle pics

rand · 7th September 2007, 08:30 PM

More Tibetan saddle pics.... The Roc is a very interesting creature to find displayed on any arms or armor accoutrament, usually and indication of an early piece.

The three pieces of turquoise also of interest.... (possibly represent the three eyes?)

Coral is also a Talisanic stone......

rand

rand · 7th September 2007, 08:33 PM

This saddle identified as 15th-17th century by auction house, a Tibetan dealer in Italy thinks circa 1800 because of style of deity, my opinon is 1700 or earlier....

rand

rand · 7th September 2007, 09:50 PM

In Don Laroccas book "Warriors of the Himalayas", page235 he states in reference to a saddle and associated elements he identifies as early 20th century, "While mercury gilding as a technique was commen on sculpture and other objects made of copper alloy or silver, iron objects from Tibet and China otherwise invariably have gold applied by damascening or, more rarely, by parcel gilding, in which mercury gilding is selectively applied over a silver damascened iron ground (cat.nos.19,118-1121). Mercury gilding directly on iron, a technique practised in Europe from at least the fifteenth century, seems to have been unknown, or at least unused, in Asia and was not introduced untill the nineteenth century or later."

The attached photo is figure 124, one of the items Larocca was referring to.

Battara · 7th September 2007, 10:01 PM

Not sure why this technique was used except that gold will adhere to softer metals more easily like bronze,silver, copper, or brass.

rand · 7th September 2007, 11:15 PM

Using the technique and the dates to having started using it raise many questions.

Certainly having access to a certain material will effect use as shown when medievel Mameluke metalworkers shifted to a silver overlay as opposed to inlay because of a silver shortage.

Control of trade routes would effect that too, but in the most sumptuos examples made for rulers it would be a moot point. We know that many times technques of craftsmanship were closely guarded secrets by the various guilds and the penalty for disclosure could be death, even in something such as Venetian trade beads for example.

Also, different materials have had different values over time, iron was at one time very valuable as was copper too. Today we look at those tow metals as very affordable.

From my viewpoint for Tibetan metalwork its more one of asthetics. The Tibetan pieces were certainly labor intensive and the end result more important than time of the artisan.

The saddle pictured above has gold attached with a koftgari (cross hatching)
technique with gold sheet or wire applied. There is no evidence of silver between the gold and iron.

Another thing to note is how dark the iron is that has been exposed where the gold overlay is missing, its takes a while for iron to get a hard dark brown rust (oxidation), would estimate 200 -300 years at least.

The color of the gold is another clue, the softer, duller colors attributed to a 22-24K high gold alloy as opposed to a shiney 14K you see in most European modern jewelry.

rand

rand · 7th September 2007, 11:52 PM

The below blog is an example of gold first applied on iron with gold then applied over it. In places where gold is worn you see the gold that is underneath. The silver was also left alone in places for contrasting decoration. This is on a 17th-18th century pierced iron Chinese sword guard.

http://chineseswordguard.blogspot.com/

Could not resize photo's small enough to post here....

rand

7th September 2007, 08:28 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Tibetan Saddle Tibetan Saddle pics Attached Images

7th September 2007, 08:30 PM	#2
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	More saddle pics More Tibetan saddle pics.... The Roc is a very interesting creature to find displayed on any arms or armor accoutrament, usually and indication of an early piece. The three pieces of turquoise also of interest.... (possibly represent the three eyes?) Coral is also a Talisanic stone...... rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 7th September 2007 at 09:11 PM.

7th September 2007, 08:33 PM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Tibetan Saddle This saddle identified as 15th-17th century by auction house, a Tibetan dealer in Italy thinks circa 1800 because of style of deity, my opinon is 1700 or earlier.... rand

7th September 2007, 09:50 PM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Gold Decoration In Don Laroccas book "Warriors of the Himalayas", page235 he states in reference to a saddle and associated elements he identifies as early 20th century, "While mercury gilding as a technique was commen on sculpture and other objects made of copper alloy or silver, iron objects from Tibet and China otherwise invariably have gold applied by damascening or, more rarely, by parcel gilding, in which mercury gilding is selectively applied over a silver damascened iron ground (cat.nos.19,118-1121). Mercury gilding directly on iron, a technique practised in Europe from at least the fifteenth century, seems to have been unknown, or at least unused, in Asia and was not introduced untill the nineteenth century or later." The attached photo is figure 124, one of the items Larocca was referring to. Attached Images

7th September 2007, 11:15 PM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Goldwork Using the technique and the dates to having started using it raise many questions. Certainly having access to a certain material will effect use as shown when medievel Mameluke metalworkers shifted to a silver overlay as opposed to inlay because of a silver shortage. Control of trade routes would effect that too, but in the most sumptuos examples made for rulers it would be a moot point. We know that many times technques of craftsmanship were closely guarded secrets by the various guilds and the penalty for disclosure could be death, even in something such as Venetian trade beads for example. Also, different materials have had different values over time, iron was at one time very valuable as was copper too. Today we look at those tow metals as very affordable. From my viewpoint for Tibetan metalwork its more one of asthetics. The Tibetan pieces were certainly labor intensive and the end result more important than time of the artisan. The saddle pictured above has gold attached with a koftgari (cross hatching) technique with gold sheet or wire applied. There is no evidence of silver between the gold and iron. Another thing to note is how dark the iron is that has been exposed where the gold overlay is missing, its takes a while for iron to get a hard dark brown rust (oxidation), would estimate 200 -300 years at least. The color of the gold is another clue, the softer, duller colors attributed to a 22-24K high gold alloy as opposed to a shiney 14K you see in most European modern jewelry. rand

7th September 2007, 10:01 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Not sure why this technique was used except that gold will adhere to softer metals more easily like bronze,silver, copper, or brass.

7th September 2007, 11:52 PM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Example of gold over silver metalwork The below blog is an example of gold first applied on iron with gold then applied over it. In places where gold is worn you see the gold that is underneath. The silver was also left alone in places for contrasting decoration. This is on a 17th-18th century pierced iron Chinese sword guard. http://chineseswordguard.blogspot.com/ Could not resize photo's small enough to post here.... rand