Takouba and copper

Tim Simmons · 20th November 2008, 04:58 PM

Quite helpful.

fernando · 20th November 2008, 05:39 PM

Excelent.
Thanks
Fernando

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2008, 05:58 PM

Outstanding Tim! Thank you for sharing that. It seems we have brought the use of copper on these swords up a number of times over the years, and this is very well placed information.
I recall having a kaskara with a brass crossguard, and wondered why this was used rather than the more commonly seen iron guards. I was told at one point that the brass (or presumably copper) meant 'life' while iron was associated with 'death', and while simplistic, it seems to correspond in some degree with this concept.
Perhaps that kaskara may have been furbished by a Hausa smith to the west where these concepts were more in place? It should be noted that the blade also had the dukari (twin crescent moons) which also suggest Saharan provenance to the west of the Anglo Egyptian Sudan.

All the best,
Jim

PS What book is this from...looks like one I'd like to read!!!

Tim Simmons · 20th November 2008, 07:05 PM

Thanks Fernando and Jim. The book is "Red Gold of Africa" copper in percolonial history and culture. It is not about weapons. It is rather academic with as always some lengthy discussion on unprouvable topics. However being relativley up to date 1984 there is a general acceptance that Africa and Africans are capable of independant technology, thought and achievement.

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Thanks Fernando and Jim. The book is "Red Gold of Africa" copper in percolonial history and culture. It is not about weapons. It is rather academic with as always some lengthy discussion on unprouvable topics. However being relativley up to date 1984 there is a general acceptance that Africa and Africans are capable of inderpendant technology, thought and achievement.

Thanks Tim! It is truly amazing how many books and references that have little to do specifically with weapons, contain important clues and perspective in our understanding of them. I have found important references for example in a book on the history of salt, in dealing with trans Saharan trade routes, which well illustrated the routes likely in weapon form diffusion. There is another great book on copper, called Miswabik (?) that you or someone referenced here, with great detail on copper development. Cant recall offhand the exact title.

All the best,
Jim

Emanuel · 20th November 2008, 09:38 PM

Hello,

This is very intersting. I have identical quotes in an older thread from "Aspects of the Use of Copper in Pre-Colonial West Africa" in The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2. (1973), pp. 179-194. Tim is the author Eugenia W. Herbert? I'll look fo the book.

Emanuel

Emanuel · 20th November 2008, 09:40 PM

Ah just found the book, same author. I was hoping your book might be corroboration from another source.

20th November 2008, 04:58 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	Takouba and copper Quite helpful. Attached Images

20th November 2008, 07:05 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	Thanks Fernando and Jim. The book is "Red Gold of Africa" copper in percolonial history and culture. It is not about weapons. It is rather academic with as always some lengthy discussion on unprouvable topics. However being relativley up to date 1984 there is a general acceptance that Africa and Africans are capable of independant technology, thought and achievement. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th November 2008 at 07:48 PM. Reason: spelling

20th November 2008, 05:39 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excelent. Thanks Fernando

20th November 2008, 05:58 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Outstanding Tim! Thank you for sharing that. It seems we have brought the use of copper on these swords up a number of times over the years, and this is very well placed information. I recall having a kaskara with a brass crossguard, and wondered why this was used rather than the more commonly seen iron guards. I was told at one point that the brass (or presumably copper) meant 'life' while iron was associated with 'death', and while simplistic, it seems to correspond in some degree with this concept. Perhaps that kaskara may have been furbished by a Hausa smith to the west where these concepts were more in place? It should be noted that the blade also had the dukari (twin crescent moons) which also suggest Saharan provenance to the west of the Anglo Egyptian Sudan. All the best, Jim PS What book is this from...looks like one I'd like to read!!!

20th November 2008, 09:38 PM	#6
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, This is very intersting. I have identical quotes in an older thread from "Aspects of the Use of Copper in Pre-Colonial West Africa" in The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2. (1973), pp. 179-194. Tim is the author Eugenia W. Herbert? I'll look fo the book. Emanuel

20th November 2008, 09:40 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Ah just found the book, same author. I was hoping your book might be corroboration from another source.