Afghan Jezail ?

Norman McCormick · 4th September 2008, 11:38 PM

Hi Guys,
This item is available locally. It is advertised as an 19thC Afghan Jezail rifle. I would like to know your thoughts, as far as you are able from the photos, as to the validity of the claim and possibly whether it looks of reasonable quality or not. I DO NOT wish anybody to reply with regard to a monetary value. I know I'm asking a lot as you are not able to handle the piece but any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Norman.

Rick · 4th September 2008, 11:49 PM

Close ups would help immensely .

So many forgeries these days .

Norman McCormick · 4th September 2008, 11:58 PM

Hi Rick,
These are the only photos that are available at the moment, I should be able to take photos as well as handle the piece within the next four or five days. Is there anything I should look for specifically and are there any particular parts to photograph that would help to I.D. whether fake or genuine. Thanks for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.

Rick · 5th September 2008, 12:02 AM

Hi Norman,

I think Ward or one of our other firearm collectors would be the one to ask about what features to take pictures of .

Hopefully one of them will chime in .

Rick

eftihis · 5th September 2008, 12:02 AM

Its a greek/ albanian rifle. It looks as medium quality and also looks that it has been shortened and modified from the middle of it untill the end of the barell

ward · 5th September 2008, 03:56 AM

Albanian looks right that lock does not look original but could have been replaced in period. would need better pics of brass and wood on forearm to tell if it had been monkeyed with. Look at the barrell especially markings. Generally rifles are not faked from scratch to much work. But additions and embelshments are done to add value. the quality does not look bad, but I would look very carefuly at the fit of some of the pieces and the consistency of the work overall. These pieces were still being made and used thruout 19th century

Norman McCormick · 6th September 2008, 12:22 AM

Eftihis, Ward,
Thanks for your input, will post more photos and more info if and when available. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

Valjhun · 6th September 2008, 10:49 AM

A rare form of Ottoman rifle produced in manufactures in Albania. It is called RASAK. The lock has been replaced, but that happened very often on thoose. It seems that there are also some brass decoration missing along the barrel. They rarely left bare wood, uncovered by decorated brass.

Let me know if you want a divorce from that piece.

ward · 6th September 2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

It seems that there are also some brass decoration missing along the barrel. They rarely left bare wood, uncovered by decorated brass

this is why I am saying look at the overall workmanship because it is odd that much wood is showing brass and wood on forearm may be replaced. Untill you look at patina of wood and workmanship of those brass pieces will not know

eftihis · 6th September 2008, 07:49 PM

Hi Valjhun, maybe the books describe it as "albanian rasak" but was also made in Greece. There are many with greek inscription, and is considered in Greece more Greek than albanian.
I have a silver one!
The photo below is from a Greek museum

TVV · 6th September 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Hi Valjhun, maybe the books describe it as "albanian rasak" but was also made in Greece. There are many with greek inscription, and is considered in Greece more Greek than albanian.
I have a silver one!
The photo below is from a Greek museum

It was also made in Macedonia in cities such as Prilep and Tetovo, but I believe it is best known as Albanian not after the people who produced those, but by the people who used them.

ward · 6th September 2008, 07:55 PM

that has always been a bit controversial. According to Elgood the greeks just bought the rifles in trade. his words not mine so don't yell to loud

Yannis · 7th September 2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

It was also made in Macedonia in cities such as Prilep and Tetovo, but I believe it is best known as Albanian not after the people who produced those, but by the people who used them.

Well, Greeks used it, somehow. They made a successful revolution with it

1821

Norman McCormick · 12th September 2008, 04:11 PM

Hi Guys,
Here are some more photos. The lock does not work although it would appear that the rifle may have been dropped at some time and the lock knocked out of its seating. The brass sheet is missing in some places as pointed out. There is a date marked on the brass whether this is original or not? There is no makers mark or proof marks on either the barrel or the lock. The barrel does not look like it has been shortened as the decoration comes to an end naturally about 2 inches short of the muzzle, seems meant.
Regards,
Norman.

ward · 12th September 2008, 07:18 PM

yes I would say lock has been replaced especially with the new screw added thru the other side. date seems about right. The piece is ok not what I call museum quality but ok

4th September 2008, 11:38 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Afghan Jezail ? Hi Guys, This item is available locally. It is advertised as an 19thC Afghan Jezail rifle. I would like to know your thoughts, as far as you are able from the photos, as to the validity of the claim and possibly whether it looks of reasonable quality or not. I DO NOT wish anybody to reply with regard to a monetary value. I know I'm asking a lot as you are not able to handle the piece but any help would be appreciated. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

6th September 2008, 07:49 PM	#10
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Hi Valjhun, maybe the books describe it as "albanian rasak" but was also made in Greece. There are many with greek inscription, and is considered in Greece more Greek than albanian. I have a silver one! The photo below is from a Greek museum Attached Images

12th September 2008, 04:11 PM	#14
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Guys, Here are some more photos. The lock does not work although it would appear that the rifle may have been dropped at some time and the lock knocked out of its seating. The brass sheet is missing in some places as pointed out. There is a date marked on the brass whether this is original or not? There is no makers mark or proof marks on either the barrel or the lock. The barrel does not look like it has been shortened as the decoration comes to an end naturally about 2 inches short of the muzzle, seems meant. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

4th September 2008, 11:49 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Close ups would help immensely . So many forgeries these days .

4th September 2008, 11:58 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Rick, These are the only photos that are available at the moment, I should be able to take photos as well as handle the piece within the next four or five days. Is there anything I should look for specifically and are there any particular parts to photograph that would help to I.D. whether fake or genuine. Thanks for your interest. My Regards, Norman.

5th September 2008, 12:02 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Norman, I think Ward or one of our other firearm collectors would be the one to ask about what features to take pictures of . Hopefully one of them will chime in . Rick

5th September 2008, 03:56 AM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Albanian looks right that lock does not look original but could have been replaced in period. would need better pics of brass and wood on forearm to tell if it had been monkeyed with. Look at the barrell especially markings. Generally rifles are not faked from scratch to much work. But additions and embelshments are done to add value. the quality does not look bad, but I would look very carefuly at the fit of some of the pieces and the consistency of the work overall. These pieces were still being made and used thruout 19th century

6th September 2008, 12:22 AM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Eftihis, Ward, Thanks for your input, will post more photos and more info if and when available. Thanks again. My Regards, Norman.

6th September 2008, 10:49 AM	#8
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	A rare form of Ottoman rifle produced in manufactures in Albania. It is called RASAK. The lock has been replaced, but that happened very often on thoose. It seems that there are also some brass decoration missing along the barrel. They rarely left bare wood, uncovered by decorated brass. Let me know if you want a divorce from that piece.

6th September 2008, 07:55 PM	#12
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	that has always been a bit controversial. According to Elgood the greeks just bought the rifles in trade. his words not mine so don't yell to loud

12th September 2008, 07:18 PM	#15
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	yes I would say lock has been replaced especially with the new screw added thru the other side. date seems about right. The piece is ok not what I call museum quality but ok