Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 23rd January 2019, 11:14 PM   #1
jagabuwana
Member
 
jagabuwana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 280
Default Talismanic brass "kerises"

Hi all,

I have some questions about small, talismanic kerisses made of brass that I've seen in Indonesia, specifically Java.

They're generally quite small compared to the conventional kris made of steel and nickelous iron, maybe about a hand length, and seem to be made of brass or a similar coloured material.

Some are said/believed to be old or pusaka items, while others are believed to be made and bought or circulated in the modern era. The old or pusaka ones, like conventional kerisses, are often obtained by supernatural means or circumstances, and those who have them don't seem to distinguish between the kind of power that these brass ones possess versus talismanic tosan aji.

I haven't been able to find much information about these brass talismans. Some questions:

1) When did these talismans start appearing?

2) Do these items have any place, or any attention or acknowledgment paid to them, among those institutions and people that are deemed to be authorities in keris and tosan aji?

I had more questions prior to writing this but I've had a mind blank! Interested to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: I should add that the ones I'm thinking of aren't the single-piece brass ones that are carved or shaped to resemble a keris.
I refer to ones where there is a brass blade (either straight or with luks), and both the wilah and what would be the gonjo is one piece, with greneng carved in. All that I've come across have wooden sheaths and handles.
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2019, 01:19 AM   #2
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

When you say "brass" keris the only ones i am familiar with are the little token keris that are often sold as talismans. What you describe sounds a bot different. Photographs would be helpful to the discussion. I will assume that you don't mean these which are basically souvenirs.
Attached Images
   
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2019, 09:42 AM   #3
jagabuwana
Member
 
jagabuwana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 280
Default

They may as well be little souvenirs. Attached photo is a pretty good example
of I'm referring to, if you can imagine it being about 10-15cm in length.
Attached Images
 
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2019, 12:24 AM   #4
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

While i haven't usually seen them in wooden dress like that i am afraid that this is not a serious member of the keris family.
That said, you can take ANY object and imbue it with spiritual meaning and purpose if you have the will to. But i don't believe these are the kind of objects we really need to be talking about in this forum.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2019, 06:36 AM   #5
jagabuwana
Member
 
jagabuwana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 280
Default

Keris-like objects indeed. Fair enough, David
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2019, 12:16 AM   #6
Pusaka
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 341
Default

I think this Besi Kursani is more complex then brass.
Pusaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2019, 01:26 AM   #7
jagabuwana
Member
 
jagabuwana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 280
Default

Interesting.

Though the most I can find about besi kersani is that it's probably a copper alloy of some sort but has some sort of relevance to some Islamic mystic beliefs.
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2019, 11:02 AM   #8
Pusaka
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 341
Default

I would not be surprised if some examples had a composition similar to Tibetan Thokcha because there is frequent suggestion that one major ingredient of besi kersani is meteorite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thokcha
Pusaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.