Origin of this blade

danny1976 · 8th July 2024, 07:15 PM

Hello Forum members,

After a long time not being active on this forum, but still lurking from time to time.
Here a post with a question, i found this keris a couple of weeks ago.

I really like the blade, the sheat i' m not sure what i think about it. The hilt is a hilt that i had in my collection and imo it fits the keris.

My questions,
* Is this blade a Sumatran blade or more the direction of Patani or Malaysia?
*Is this hilt suitable?
*What about the wranka?

Hope some fellow members can help me out

Regards,
Danny

Sajen · 8th July 2024, 08:56 PM

Hi Danny,

Welcome back mate!

The blade looks very Malay IMVHO. The hilt you added is Sumatran. The scabbard is a later replacement I guess. Very nice blade!

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2024, 10:18 PM

deleted

Gustav · 8th July 2024, 10:52 PM

It is both - a Ricikan configuration on the base of blade is Sumatran in style, but the execution of it is pointing to Malay peninsula.

We had discussions of similar blades before:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...gunungan+keris

Regarding the scabbard, I once had a Keris from Borneo with s similar one, but that msy have been just a coincidence. It does look like a scabbard a man, who wasn't a Tukang Wrongko just made for a Keris himself, and could come from everywhere in Malay world.

Pendita65 · 8th July 2024, 11:10 PM

Hi Danny,

i allready had the pleasure to hold this Keris three weeks ago when you just bought it. I do like the scabbard and it didn't had a bad fitting either so i like the vernacular look of it. The blade is a nice blade IMHO.

I am curious what type of Hulu would be better for this Keris.

Regards,

Martin

Gustav · 8th July 2024, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Hi Danny,

i allready had the pleasure to hold this Keris three weeks ago when you just bought it. I do like the scabbard and it didn't had a bad fitting either so i like the vernacular look of it. The blade is a nice blade IMHO.

I am curious what type of Hulu would be better for this Keris.

Regards,

Martin

You see three possibilities in the linked post from my post before.

danny1976 · 9th July 2024, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Danny,

Welcome back mate!

The blade looks very Malay IMVHO. The hilt you added is Sumatran. The scabbard is a later replacement I guess. Very nice blade!

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef.

Thanks!

I like this blade too, it is the first one of this type in my collection.

Will look for a suitable hilt and scabbard, imo this one is way to course.
It will be a search, it is easier here to find Javanese or Balinese parts.

danny1976 · 9th July 2024, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

It is both - a Ricikan configuration on the base of blade is Sumatran in style, but the execution of it is pointing to Malay peninsula.

We had discussions of similar blades before:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...gunungan+keris

Regarding the scabbard, I once had a Keris from Borneo with s similar one, but that msy have been just a coincidence. It does look like a scabbard a man, who wasn't a Tukang Wrongko just made for a Keris himself, and could come from everywhere in Malay world.

Hi Gustav,

Thanks for the link, very interesting and helpful.
So it a appears to be a Jambi blade.

danny1976 · 9th July 2024, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Hi Danny,

i allready had the pleasure to hold this Keris three weeks ago when you just bought it. I do like the scabbard and it didn't had a bad fitting either so i like the vernacular look of it. The blade is a nice blade IMHO.

I am curious what type of Hulu would be better for this Keris.

Regards,

Martin

Hi Martin,

Yes you did.
I don't like this scabbard, it is to course so the search will start for something suitable.

Pendita65 · 9th July 2024, 09:39 AM

Hi Danny,

thats a choice of course, but it is also part of the history of the Keris i guess, I do understand to redress, but as a restorer we are inclined to preserve as much of possible.

Regards, Martin

Sajen · 9th July 2024, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

Yes you did.
I don't like this scabbard, it is to course so the search will start for something suitable.

Hi Danny,

I am with Martin, the scabbard isn't a nice one, I agree with you, but it's the one which comes with the blade. To find a fitting one will be a greater challenge than to find a hilt for the blade!

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2024, 02:59 PM

Actually, I rather like this scabbard. It has form, it has craftsmanship, it reflects previous ownership. It has personality.

I'm not really much interested inthis style of keris, its sort of a bit outside my field of study, but that study has taught me that to understand the keris we do not limit our research to just princely pieces.

So, from my perspective, this is a pretty nice sort of keris, & I'm guessing it might have a lot to say.

danny1976 · 9th July 2024, 03:43 PM

Normally i always will prefer a "primitive" look over a
tight looking dress, but there is something i just dont like with this scabbard. Maybe it is the course appearance of the wood.

The fitting is so so, the former owner did try to repair it with 2 component glue. Maybe i will try to get the repair undone and see if i can fix it in a better way.

For now the blade has to stay in this house.

Thnx for al the replays.

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2024, 11:22 PM

Its all about perspective Danny:- do we wish to learn about the keris or do we wish create our own version of how it "should" be?

For some people, it is an expression of a society & it tells the story of those who had previously held it, for others it is something that needs to fit a pre-established form that is held in the mind of that person.

There are many ways of considering the keris & the way that one person chooses to follow might not be the way that all choose to follow.

8th July 2024, 07:15 PM	#1
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Origin of this blade Hello Forum members, After a long time not being active on this forum, but still lurking from time to time. Here a post with a question, i found this keris a couple of weeks ago. I really like the blade, the sheat i' m not sure what i think about it. The hilt is a hilt that i had in my collection and imo it fits the keris. My questions, * Is this blade a Sumatran blade or more the direction of Patani or Malaysia? Is this hilt suitable? What about the wranka? Hope some fellow members can help me out Regards, Danny Attached Images

8th July 2024, 08:56 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hi Danny, Welcome back mate! The blade looks very Malay IMVHO. The hilt you added is Sumatran. The scabbard is a later replacement I guess. Very nice blade! Regards, Detlef

8th July 2024, 10:18 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	deleted

8th July 2024, 10:52 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	It is both - a Ricikan configuration on the base of blade is Sumatran in style, but the execution of it is pointing to Malay peninsula. We had discussions of similar blades before: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...gunungan+keris Regarding the scabbard, I once had a Keris from Borneo with s similar one, but that msy have been just a coincidence. It does look like a scabbard a man, who wasn't a Tukang Wrongko just made for a Keris himself, and could come from everywhere in Malay world.

8th July 2024, 11:10 PM	#5
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 99	Hi Danny, i allready had the pleasure to hold this Keris three weeks ago when you just bought it. I do like the scabbard and it didn't had a bad fitting either so i like the vernacular look of it. The blade is a nice blade IMHO. I am curious what type of Hulu would be better for this Keris. Regards, Martin

9th July 2024, 09:39 AM	#10
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 99	Hi Danny, thats a choice of course, but it is also part of the history of the Keris i guess, I do understand to redress, but as a restorer we are inclined to preserve as much of possible. Regards, Martin

9th July 2024, 02:59 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Actually, I rather like this scabbard. It has form, it has craftsmanship, it reflects previous ownership. It has personality. I'm not really much interested inthis style of keris, its sort of a bit outside my field of study, but that study has taught me that to understand the keris we do not limit our research to just princely pieces. So, from my perspective, this is a pretty nice sort of keris, & I'm guessing it might have a lot to say.

9th July 2024, 03:43 PM	#13
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Normally i always will prefer a "primitive" look over a tight looking dress, but there is something i just dont like with this scabbard. Maybe it is the course appearance of the wood. The fitting is so so, the former owner did try to repair it with 2 component glue. Maybe i will try to get the repair undone and see if i can fix it in a better way. For now the blade has to stay in this house. Thnx for al the replays.

9th July 2024, 11:22 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Its all about perspective Danny:- do we wish to learn about the keris or do we wish create our own version of how it "should" be? For some people, it is an expression of a society & it tells the story of those who had previously held it, for others it is something that needs to fit a pre-established form that is held in the mind of that person. There are many ways of considering the keris & the way that one person chooses to follow might not be the way that all choose to follow.