Iron Helmet

Mansabdar · 29th December 2023, 03:45 PM

Hello,

Could someone be kind enough to tell me what region this helmet comes from? It is very heavy : 2223 g

It is entirely made of iron. The rings are riveted.

Thank you for any information.

Best regards,

fernando · 29th December 2023, 04:38 PM

Welcome to the forum, Mansabdar

.
Didn't you manage to post pictures your helmet ?

Mansabdar · 30th December 2023, 01:50 PM

Dear Sir,
I tried to post the photographs, but they didn't appear.
Best regards

fernando · 31st December 2023, 04:38 PM

C'mon Gentlemen; no comments ?

cel7 · 31st December 2023, 07:28 PM

It looks like some kind of Indo persian Kulah khud type helmet. The fact that all the rings are riveted makes it clear that it is an old one.

Gavin Nugent · 1st January 2024, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

C'mon Gentlemen; no comments ?

A lot of the community are elsewhere during the festive season... it will come to pass.

I've nothing to offer other than the form is nice, the rivet links area good sign and it looks to be Caucasian/Crimea Tatar in origins.

Edit. I've been advised it is not Tatar, I'll wait for others to chime in.
Attached are two similar Persian Helms in the Wallace collection.

Ian · 1st January 2024, 05:02 AM

Hi Mansabdar,

Welcome to the Forum! That's a nice old helmet that you show. My estimate would be Persian, and the similarity is apparent in Gavin's post of the items in the Wallace Collection.

Mansabdar · 3rd January 2024, 12:43 PM

Happy new year everyone !

There are a few helmets that are similar in construction, but much nicer.

1 - in Louvre museum : It is given as Persian but with inscriptions in Arabic! Strange !
Two bibliographical references are given, both false :
- Bashir, Mohamed (dir.), L'art des chevaliers en pays d'Islam : Collection de la Furusiyya Art Foundation, cat. exp. (Paris, Institut du monde arabe, 2007), Milan, Skira, 2007, p. 334, n° 321
- Moshtagh Khorasani, Manouchehr, Arms and armor from Iran : the Bronze Age to the end of the Qajar period., Tübingen, Legat-Verlag, 2006, p. 716, n° 407

2 - Wallace collection : Persian ?

3 - Two Alamy pictures unfortunately without sources

4 - One given as Turkish (Mossgreen Auctions 22/11/2009)

I have a very specific question:
- if it is a Persian model, why is it ignored by Manouchehr ?
- if it is a Indian model, why is it ignored by G. N. Pant ?
- if it is a Turkish model, what is the reference? I didn't find it in any book

I would like to have a scientific source.

Best regards,

Mansabdar · 3rd January 2024, 12:58 PM

The second of Alamy

Ian · 4th January 2024, 04:24 PM

Quote:

I have a very specific question:
- if it is a Persian model, why is it ignored by Manouchehr ?
- if it is a Indian model, why is it ignored by G. N. Pant ?
- if it is a Turkish model, what is the reference? I didn't find it in any book

I would like to have a scientific source.

All good questions and I hope we have someone here who can answer them.

29th December 2023, 03:45 PM	#1
Mansabdar Member Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: Paris Posts: 8	Iron Helmet Hello, Could someone be kind enough to tell me what region this helmet comes from? It is very heavy : 2223 g It is entirely made of iron. The rings are riveted. Thank you for any information. Best regards,

30th December 2023, 01:50 PM	#3
Mansabdar Member Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: Paris Posts: 8	Dear Sir, I tried to post the photographs, but they didn't appear. Best regards Attached Images

3rd January 2024, 12:43 PM	#8
Mansabdar Member Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: Paris Posts: 8	Persian, Turkish, Indian, Arabic ? Happy new year everyone ! There are a few helmets that are similar in construction, but much nicer. 1 - in Louvre museum : It is given as Persian but with inscriptions in Arabic! Strange ! Two bibliographical references are given, both false : - Bashir, Mohamed (dir.), L'art des chevaliers en pays d'Islam : Collection de la Furusiyya Art Foundation, cat. exp. (Paris, Institut du monde arabe, 2007), Milan, Skira, 2007, p. 334, n° 321 - Moshtagh Khorasani, Manouchehr, Arms and armor from Iran : the Bronze Age to the end of the Qajar period., Tübingen, Legat-Verlag, 2006, p. 716, n° 407 2 - Wallace collection : Persian ? 3 - Two Alamy pictures unfortunately without sources 4 - One given as Turkish (Mossgreen Auctions 22/11/2009) I have a very specific question: - if it is a Persian model, why is it ignored by Manouchehr ? - if it is a Indian model, why is it ignored by G. N. Pant ? - if it is a Turkish model, what is the reference? I didn't find it in any book I would like to have a scientific source. Best regards, Attached Images

3rd January 2024, 12:58 PM	#9
Mansabdar Member Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: Paris Posts: 8	The second of Alamy Attached Images

29th December 2023, 04:38 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum, Mansabdar . Didn't you manage to post pictures your helmet ?

31st December 2023, 04:38 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	C'mon Gentlemen; no comments ?

31st December 2023, 07:28 PM	#5
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 154	It looks like some kind of Indo persian Kulah khud type helmet. The fact that all the rings are riveted makes it clear that it is an old one.

1st January 2024, 05:02 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Hi Mansabdar, Welcome to the Forum! That's a nice old helmet that you show. My estimate would be Persian, and the similarity is apparent in Gavin's post of the items in the Wallace Collection.