Presentation, and a sword for your appreciation

Yvain · 14th May 2017, 11:09 PM

Hello everyone !

After lurking for some times, I decided to register to this goldmine of informations !

I'm a general old weapons enthousiast since I was 13 or 14, now 23 and doing a master in medieval history. Since I don't have a job (yet) my finances are somewhat limited and most pieces in my collection are either lucky finds or weird things.

I decided some times ago to take a more "scientific" approach to this hobby and that's how I found this forum.

I apologise in advance if my english is somewhat flimsy, as I'm French.

Now, for the sword part, here is one in my collection that I was enable to identify, looks somewhat vietnamese or Thai, but I'm surely wrong.

The construction is pretty sturdy, the spine of the blade is very thick, it's full tang, the scales are of unidentified wood and the guard seems to be made out of aluminium. There's a fuller on only one side of the blade. It's a somewhat short sword but I can't mesure it right now (I study in Paris and I leave my weapons at my parents' house).

Does anyone here happens to know what this is and/or when it was made ?

I also plan on cleaning it a bit, and to get ridd of that ugly varnish.

Thanks in advance !

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th May 2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvain

Hello everyone !

After lurking for some times, I decided to register to this goldmine of informations !

I'm a general old weapons enthousiast since I was 13 or 14, now 23 and doing a master in medieval history. Since I don't have a job (yet) my finances are somewhat limited and most pieces in my collection are either lucky finds or weird things.

I decided some times ago to take a more "scientific" approach to this hobby and that's how I found this forum.

I apologise in advance if my english is somewhat flimsy, as I'm French.

Now, for the sword part, here is one in my collection that I was enable to identify, looks somewhat vietnamese or Thai, but I'm surely wrong.

The construction is pretty sturdy, the spine of the blade is very thick, it's full tang, the scales are of unidentified wood and the guard seems to be made out of aluminium. There's a fuller on only one side of the blade. It's a somewhat short sword but I can't mesure it right now (I study in Paris and I leave my weapons at my parents' house).

Does anyone here happens to know what this is and/or when it was made ?

I also plan on cleaning it a bit, and to get ridd of that ugly varnish.

Thanks in advance !

Salaams Yvain ~ It certainly rings a bell as being a DAO so you may be right...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

mariusgmioc · 15th May 2017, 04:50 PM

Welcome to the forum!

The very simple and robust construction, and the serial number punched on the guard points towards a military issue. The shape of the blade and guard, make me think about Vietnam.

Yvain · 15th May 2017, 06:02 PM

Quote:

The very simple and robust construction, and the serial number punched on the guard points towards a military issue.

That's what I thought, but I'm unable to find any military that used this kind of swords. The only close one I found was from a closed auction and was described as practical fighting vietnamese guom from 1887 (see picture). Almost looks like the design was taken from this for my sword and made into a military saber, but again, can't find any army sword matching this one.

Thanks for the answers anyway !

ariel · 15th May 2017, 07:20 PM

The fact that instead of a mekugi it has rivets, makes me think of Korea.

kronckew · 16th May 2017, 01:38 AM

i have a friend who had a few similar swords pass thru him a while back, they were from SE asia anyhow. he says they are from Java or Sumatra, 1900 to ww2 date, could be anytime from 1900 onward. this is one of them below, with an aluminum guard like yours too. grip on it is full exposed tang with grip slabs & rivets, wrapped, under that is much like yours. appears they were made in the style of a katana, with local embellishments. no bohi (fuller) on this one. aluminum was in common use by then in the area as electricity became more common.

Ian · 16th May 2017, 05:09 PM

Hi Yvain:

My first thought on seeing your short sword was a Nipponized adaptation of a western style sword or bayonet, in much the same way that the Marachausseesabel was adapted by the Japanese in Indonesia during WWII to produce the heiho knife.

However, the blade is not one that is obviously KNIL--neither the Dutch klewang nor kapmes (bayonet) would fit. Your blade is unusual in that the fuller is only on one side. Also, the hilt seems unusually long, at least for a western style bayonet or sword.

Japanese occupation of China, Manchuria, Korea, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. before and during WWII, with adaptation of a local military weapon, seem possible sources. For the reasons noted above, I don't think this one is of Dutch origin.

Look forward to hearing what others have to say.

Ian.

Yvain · 16th May 2017, 05:24 PM

Thanks Ian !

There is definitly some kind japanese "flavor" to it, if I might say so.

And, indeed, the hilt is really long for a sword that short, I can comfortably fit both hands on it. Considering that, the width of the spine and the full tang construction, I think you could deal some serious blow with it. I think this effective and simple design is what makes me love it so much !

Sajen · 16th May 2017, 07:11 PM

Hello Yvain,

my first thought was China or Vietnam but all statements before are good as mine.

Regards,
Detlef

Miguel · 16th May 2017, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Yvain,

my first thought was China or Vietnam but all statements before are good as mine.

Regards,
Detlef

I agree but gut feeling says Vietnamese, no Habuki.
Miguel

sakimori · 18th May 2017, 05:17 PM

Very interesting sword.It makes me remind of Japanese"heiho"short swords as well.The only thing I can be certain about is that I never seen something like this in China,so would be vote for SE asia....not being helpful,I guess.Would be great if some knowledgeble member would supplements the information.

Yvain · 18th May 2017, 09:11 PM

Well lot of interesting thoughts here,thank you all !

I'm actually surprised that it is somewhat unique, I thought it was only my lack of knowledge that prevented me to know what it was !

Might post some of my other oddballs as well then !

Jim McDougall · 19th May 2017, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvain

Well lot of interesting thoughts here,thank you all !

I'm actually surprised that it is somewhat unique, I thought it was only my lack of knowledge that prevented me to know what it was !

Might post some of my other oddballs as well then !

That's the whole deal here, we all learn together, just as with your interesting example! By all means, bring them on!

14th May 2017, 11:09 PM	#1
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Presentation, and a sword for your appreciation Hello everyone ! After lurking for some times, I decided to register to this goldmine of informations ! I'm a general old weapons enthousiast since I was 13 or 14, now 23 and doing a master in medieval history. Since I don't have a job (yet) my finances are somewhat limited and most pieces in my collection are either lucky finds or weird things. I decided some times ago to take a more "scientific" approach to this hobby and that's how I found this forum. I apologise in advance if my english is somewhat flimsy, as I'm French. Now, for the sword part, here is one in my collection that I was enable to identify, looks somewhat vietnamese or Thai, but I'm surely wrong. The construction is pretty sturdy, the spine of the blade is very thick, it's full tang, the scales are of unidentified wood and the guard seems to be made out of aluminium. There's a fuller on only one side of the blade. It's a somewhat short sword but I can't mesure it right now (I study in Paris and I leave my weapons at my parents' house). Does anyone here happens to know what this is and/or when it was made ? I also plan on cleaning it a bit, and to get ridd of that ugly varnish. Thanks in advance ! Attached Images

16th May 2017, 01:38 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i have a friend who had a few similar swords pass thru him a while back, they were from SE asia anyhow. he says they are from Java or Sumatra, 1900 to ww2 date, could be anytime from 1900 onward. this is one of them below, with an aluminum guard like yours too. grip on it is full exposed tang with grip slabs & rivets, wrapped, under that is much like yours. appears they were made in the style of a katana, with local embellishments. no bohi (fuller) on this one. aluminum was in common use by then in the area as electricity became more common. Attached Images

15th May 2017, 04:50 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Welcome to the forum! The very simple and robust construction, and the serial number punched on the guard points towards a military issue. The shape of the blade and guard, make me think about Vietnam.

15th May 2017, 07:20 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The fact that instead of a mekugi it has rivets, makes me think of Korea.

16th May 2017, 05:09 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Yvain: My first thought on seeing your short sword was a Nipponized adaptation of a western style sword or bayonet, in much the same way that the Marachausseesabel was adapted by the Japanese in Indonesia during WWII to produce the heiho knife. However, the blade is not one that is obviously KNIL--neither the Dutch klewang nor kapmes (bayonet) would fit. Your blade is unusual in that the fuller is only on one side. Also, the hilt seems unusually long, at least for a western style bayonet or sword. Japanese occupation of China, Manchuria, Korea, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. before and during WWII, with adaptation of a local military weapon, seem possible sources. For the reasons noted above, I don't think this one is of Dutch origin. Look forward to hearing what others have to say. Ian.

16th May 2017, 05:24 PM	#8
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Thanks Ian ! There is definitly some kind japanese "flavor" to it, if I might say so. And, indeed, the hilt is really long for a sword that short, I can comfortably fit both hands on it. Considering that, the width of the spine and the full tang construction, I think you could deal some serious blow with it. I think this effective and simple design is what makes me love it so much !

16th May 2017, 07:11 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Yvain, my first thought was China or Vietnam but all statements before are good as mine. Regards, Detlef

18th May 2017, 05:17 PM	#11
sakimori Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 26	Very interesting sword.It makes me remind of Japanese"heiho"short swords as well.The only thing I can be certain about is that I never seen something like this in China,so would be vote for SE asia....not being helpful,I guess.Would be great if some knowledgeble member would supplements the information.

18th May 2017, 09:11 PM	#12
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Well lot of interesting thoughts here,thank you all ! I'm actually surprised that it is somewhat unique, I thought it was only my lack of knowledge that prevented me to know what it was ! Might post some of my other oddballs as well then !