Italian ammunition belt 17th

eftihis · 4th March 2021, 06:28 AM

This is an Italian ammunition belt for a machlock circa 1600. What are these small wallets for? Any ther comments?

corrado26 · 4th March 2021, 07:50 AM

I think that each of this mall tanks contained the load of powder for one shot for a matchlock or a wheellock gun, certainly not for military but for chasing purpose

midelburgo · 4th March 2021, 06:40 PM

Iron and tinder. And cord.

Will M · 4th March 2021, 08:01 PM

Amazing this belt still exists and with the holders too!
Rarely see any of these.

fernando · 4th March 2021, 08:12 PM

Sure thing, Will.

eftihis · 4th March 2021, 09:47 PM

I Think this is a military item. A hunter would just have a powder flask to put the black powder in the gun, not "ready to use" gunpowder holders.

David R · 5th March 2021, 01:52 PM

A bit atypical for Europe. Is there any provenance to confirm the origin?

eftihis · 5th March 2021, 05:01 PM

Ι bought it from Italy!

David R · 6th March 2021, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Ι bought it from Italy!

Personally, I think it's from somewhat further east, and is nonetheless a very fine thing to have in a collection.

Raf · 6th March 2021, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Personally, I think it's from somewhat further east, and is nonetheless a very fine thing to have in a collection.

i agree. The clue may be a number of quite modern looking extemporary repairs which imply it was in active use until fairly recently . Makes me think Tibet ? Here is a Chinese gentleman . Same general idea .

eftihis · 6th March 2021, 09:12 PM

By searching on the net i found a similar set, sold some years ago from Italy with the following description: A Musketeer's bandoleer dating: 17th Century provenance: Europe Leather belt with brass buckle; provided with a leather purse and eleven wooden flasks for powder doses, held together with leather straps. Small defects and damages. dimensions: length circa 97 cm.

fernando · 6th March 2021, 09:16 PM

Great find

-

Raf · 7th March 2021, 10:09 AM

Could that be a Chinese communist party buckle ?

Raf · 7th March 2021, 11:56 AM

This image Described as 18 C Europe . Buckle later

David R · 7th March 2021, 01:16 PM

Stuff travels, loses its history and dealers will tell the story that sells for the best price, and when I see a modern buckle on something it tells me that it was still in use when the buckle was put on!
I really like the ammo belt and it's certainly collectable.... but you don't want to be paying a 17thC Italian price for a more recent Eastern or African item. I suggest putting it on the Ethnic forum and seeing what they say. I suspect a country with Italian colonial connections if we have two turning up in Italy.
Below a provenanced 17C European bandoleer..

eftihis · 7th March 2021, 02:07 PM

Good idea, i will put it there! Thanks for your input.

4th March 2021, 06:28 AM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Italian ammunition belt 17th This is an Italian ammunition belt for a machlock circa 1600. What are these small wallets for? Any ther comments? Attached Images

6th March 2021, 09:12 PM	#11
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	By searching on the net i found a similar set, sold some years ago from Italy with the following description: A Musketeer's bandoleer dating: 17th Century provenance: Europe Leather belt with brass buckle; provided with a leather purse and eleven wooden flasks for powder doses, held together with leather straps. Small defects and damages. dimensions: length circa 97 cm. Attached Images

7th March 2021, 10:09 AM	#13
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Could that be a Chinese communist party buckle ? Attached Images

7th March 2021, 11:56 AM	#14
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	This image Described as 18 C Europe . Buckle later Attached Images Last edited by Raf; 7th March 2021 at 12:20 PM.

7th March 2021, 01:16 PM	#15
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Stuff travels, loses its history and dealers will tell the story that sells for the best price, and when I see a modern buckle on something it tells me that it was still in use when the buckle was put on! I really like the ammo belt and it's certainly collectable.... but you don't want to be paying a 17thC Italian price for a more recent Eastern or African item. I suggest putting it on the Ethnic forum and seeing what they say. I suspect a country with Italian colonial connections if we have two turning up in Italy. Below a provenanced 17C European bandoleer.. Attached Images

4th March 2021, 07:50 AM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	I think that each of this mall tanks contained the load of powder for one shot for a matchlock or a wheellock gun, certainly not for military but for chasing purpose

4th March 2021, 06:40 PM	#3
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 256	Iron and tinder. And cord.

4th March 2021, 08:01 PM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Amazing this belt still exists and with the holders too! Rarely see any of these.

4th March 2021, 08:12 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Sure thing, Will.

4th March 2021, 09:47 PM	#6
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	I Think this is a military item. A hunter would just have a powder flask to put the black powder in the gun, not "ready to use" gunpowder holders.

5th March 2021, 01:52 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	A bit atypical for Europe. Is there any provenance to confirm the origin?

5th March 2021, 05:01 PM	#8
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Ι bought it from Italy!

6th March 2021, 09:16 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great find -

7th March 2021, 02:07 PM	#16
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Good idea, i will put it there! Thanks for your input.